[nfb-talk] Travel with and without a cane
Mike Freeman
k7uij at panix.com
Thu May 30 02:43:11 UTC 2013
Yup; we just considered collisions with animate and inanimate objects and a
few scrapes, spills and falls to be part of the game.
Mike Freeman
-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Prows,
Bennett (HHS/OCR)
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 2:25 PM
To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Travel with and without a cane
I'm changing the subject line to fit the topic here.
You asked how we got around back in the "dark ages" (per Sheila.)Both with
and without sighted guides. Until I was 13, I didn't use a cane. I did a lot
of things without one, including running, walking around the neighborhood,
etc. I rode a bike, (sometimes onto the grass and into a tree, bouncing off
mostly and back onto the sidewalk). Now though, the cane is the only way I
travel. (grin.)
/s/
Bennett Prows
-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Anjelina
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 1:57 PM
To: NFB Talk Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
Out of curiosity, for those who didn't use a cane growing up how did you get
around? Did you decide a guide or would you just walk around in familiar
areas alone?
Sent from Anjelina's iPhone
On May 29, 2013, at 4:32 PM, Sheila Leigland <sleigland at bresnan.net> wrote:
> I feel like I'm from the dark ages. lol. I didn't get my first cane until
i was eighteen. I went to public school growing up in my part of California
none that I knew used a cane at school. I'm totally blind and looking back
I'm amazed I didn't kill myself. I use a cane but now have my second guide
dog and love it but I know there will be times that I need to use a cane so
keep one on hand.
> On 5/29/2013 8:08 AM, Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR) wrote:
>> Terry and Listers,
>>
>> Back in the day, (sixties) not many blind kids learned to use the cane
until our teen age years. When we did, it was at a summer program at the
state school for the blind, and we had six weeks or so of O and M training.
I took my cane with me to school, but often left it in my locker (back then
we had full sized ones at our school). When the halls were crowded, etc, I
learned that I had better take my cane with me to avoid embarrassing
encounters with other people, particularly girls. (smile) So, I began using
my cane all the time at school. I learned pretty quickly that my cane
allowed me to be independent, and explained to others why I might smack into
them once in a while. It didn't take long to develop my current attitude
that the cane is a symbol of independence, not a badge of helplessness. Of
course, I won't go anywhere without my cane now, and I do a fair bit of
traveling for the job and sometimes for the NFB.
>>
>> Glad to hear you have overcome the hesitancy about using your cane, and
don't feel awkward using it whenever and where ever you feel you need to. I
don't use the cane in my house, but certainly do in the office area at work.
>>
>> Enjoy your travels.
>>
>> /s/
>>
>> Bennett Prows
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Powers, Terry (NIH/NCI) [E]
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 5:51 AM
>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> I had a mom who was over protective and I did not get cane training
until I was a tean. This made me fearful of using a cane, like I was
publisizing that I was blind. I improved some and then met a husband who
never wanted me to use a cane. He never really accepted my blindness. Now
I am a free woman, again, the rest of my family accept me and my cane and my
ability to be independent. If someone asks to assist me, I just tell them I
can follow them. This usually happens with Metro Access. I had a bad
fall, this winter, due to a bad curb cut and I find I use my cane, more and
more. I only walk with out it in locations, I know well, like in the
office. We just moved my office, so I walked around here for 3 weeks with a
cane. There are parts of the building I still use a cane in, because there
is a lot of glass.
>> I have a sister with a learning problem and she likes to put her hand on
my sholder and try to guide me. It drives me crazy, but I try to put up
with it. She also puts my cane together, for me. I am fearful she will get
hurt or I might get hit, while she is doing it. My other sister says, she
is only trying to help. Thankfully, I have never had anyone ask me to leave
my cane, behind. My cane is a part of me and others need to accept me the
way I am.
>>
>> Terry Powers
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gloria Whipple [mailto:glowhi at centurylink.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 8:01 PM
>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> My family is still the same way. I cannot get it through their heads
about being independent using the cane.
>>
>> Gloria Whipple
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 15:16
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> If it was someone that had never met a blind person before, it would be
different.
>> My problem is, that it's stupid family members that know better!
>> You can fix ignorant all day long, but you can't fix stupid!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Mark Tardif
>> [markspark at roadrunner.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 5:12 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> It's sometimes very hard and one has to grit the teeth to avoid saying
unpleasant things. But having said that, I think we do a better job of
educating when we are gentle and sensitive to the fact that these people
just don't know and are probably nervous as heck at meeting what very well
might be their first blind person. But it isn't always easy.
>>
>> Mark Tardif
>> Nuclear arms will not hold you.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 3:50 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> Me too!
>> I can't stand ignorant people!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria
>> Whipple [glowhi at centurylink.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:48 PM
>> To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> I also don't like it and I set them straight on what it is.
>>
>> Gloria Whipple
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 12:46
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> Hi, Mrs. Gloria!
>> I get so tired of ignorant ideots calling my cane a "stick!"
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> ________________________________________
>> From: nfb-talk [nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Gloria
>> Whipple [glowhi at centurylink.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:35 PM
>> To: 'Misty Dawn Bradley'; 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> Hi Misty,
>>
>> I agree with you on the GPS.
>>
>> I have had people tell me to leave my stick if I am going sighted guide
with them. I tell them that my so called stick is part of me. I don't leave
home without it.
>>
>> Gloria Whipple
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Misty Dawn Bradley
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:42
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>> I am the same way. I have been using my cane since I was in
>> kindergarten or first grade, which is about 20 years ago, so I don't
>> feel right when I don't
>>
>> have my cane with me. I also like the challenge of figuring out
>> things on my
>>
>> own, although it is nice to have a GPS sometimes, but it is not a
necessity.
>> Misty
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gloria Whipple" <glowhi at centurylink.net>
>> To: "'NFB Talk Mailing List'" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 1:33 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>
>>
>>> I am not sure about this. I am so use to using my cane and like it.
>>>
>>> Gloria Whipple
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 10:28
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Guide Bots
>>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> To me, the idea of a device that is responsible for guiding, even if
>>> made simpler as described here, adds so much complexity and size
>>> that really has limited advantage to my way of thinking. A small
>>> device that could be mounted on a cane or connected to a dog's leash
>>> to detect objects and provide feedback would provide most of what a
>>> guiding device would without the size and other complicating issues.
>>> Why does it have to aim itself at all if the blind person were to
>>> receive enough information to do the aiming from a smaller travel aid?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 28 May 2013 11:24:59 -0400, Michael Bullis wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've been thinking about a new travel device lately and would be
>>>> interested in any feedback members might have.
>>>> I've been wondering lately if there is enough reasonably priced
>>>> portable processing power available to make a guide bot.
>>> >From looking on the web there are a few projects, mostly not very
>>>> efficient ones. There is a company called nst that is working on
>>>> it but expects to bring a product to market in the 2020's. The
>>>> reason most projects are so difficult is that they are spending
>>>> inordinate amounts of time and money teaching the guide bots to
>>>> climb stairs and fully "lead" the blind person.
>>>> We know this is unnecessary.
>>>> If you remove the necessity to "lead" the blind person the project
>>>> becomes much simpler.
>>>> The device doesn't need to climb stairs. The blind person can
>>>> simply lift it up or down. This assumes of course that it is a
lightweight device.
>>>> For example, suppose you have a two wheeled device with two forward
>>>> facing cameras and a handle on it that you direct. You push the
>>>> device down the sidewalk let's say. When it detects an object that
>>>> you should go around,
>>> to
>>>> the left, the left wheel has a brake on it. When the left brake
>>>> engages
>>> and
>>>> slows the left wheel, the device naturally turns that direction.
>>>> The same thing happens if you want to go right. If there's a curb
>>>> coming, both wheels slowly engage their brakes.
>>>> At any time, if you as the person in charge wish to override the
>>>> braking, you simply give a quick shove to the device.
>>>> The blind person provides the forward motion, eliminating any need
>>>> for motive power. The only thing the device needs power for is
>>>> processing and braking.
>>>> Whether verbally, or with a small keypad, you tell the device what
>>>> you want it to do. If the device is going to talk to you at all it
>>>> needs to be through an open-ear earbud. But this may be unnecessary.
>>>> I believe it would require two cameras for measuring distance and
>>>> for scanning both in front and to the sides.
>>>> In order for the device to be practical it would have to solve
>>>> problems
>>> that
>>>> the cane and most dogs don't solve. That is, it would have to
>>>> detect objects at head height. And, it would have to be fast. The
>>>> thing that limits a cane user in new territory is the necessity of
>>>> slowing down while detecting an object and moving around it.
>>>> I place a list of things below that are within reach of today's
>>>> technology but I'm not sure if they are within the practical
>>>> financial boundaries of a marketable device.
>>>> I thought those of you who think about matters like this might
>>>> weigh in on this and let me know.
>>>> Here is my list of things the device could do.
>>>> 1. avoiding objects-people and other interferences to the path of
>>>> travel 2. Detecting objects as high as one's head.
>>>> 3. identifying curbs and ramps
>>>> 4. recognizing intersecting sidewalks or other paths of travel 5.
>>>> finding doors 6. locating up or down stairs 7. locating elevators
>>>> 8. locating elevator buttons 9. finding restrooms 10. finding
>>>> empty urinals 11. finding empty seats on busses or in conference
>>>> rooms 12. returning to an already found seat 13. finding a bus
>>>> stop 14. finding a specific address 15. following an indicated
>>>> person I'd be interested in feedback on this idea.
>>>> If you wish to write me off-line, do so at mbullis at imagemd.org
>>>> Thanks for your thinking.
>>>> Mike
>>>> _______________________________________________
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