[nfb-talk] Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act

Paul Wick wickps at gmail.com
Wed Apr 1 04:10:46 UTC 2015


Mike Freeman,

The blanket statement "federal law preempts state law" is an overgeneralization. It would be more proper to say that the federal law provides a floor legislatively; states are free to add to that – they just can't offer less production then the federal statute. And example of this is California's disabled persons act which provides monetary damages to An individual while only injunctive relief A court order to refrain from doing something – is available under the ADA.
Best,
Paul

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 31, 2015, at 8:13 PM, Mike Freeman via nfb-talk <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> But remember that Federal law preempts state law.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Buddy
> Brannan via nfb-talk
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 4:35 PM
> To: mike at michaelhingson.com; NFB Talk Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act
> 
> Yeah, what he said. *Should* being the operative word. If someone is denied
> access, even if done wrongly, the wheels of justice spin slowly. Very
> slowly. What in the meantime? By the way Paup, while you are correct that
> official doctrine says guide dogs are an exception, the fact that someone
> misinterprets doesn't make it any less a religious issue for *that* person,
> wrong as it may be, and as I read the law and interpretations of it, this
> would be a valid application. To say that "this law doesn't apply to us, so
> we can do nothing" is, I believe, hiding our heads in the sand. It very well
> *could* apply to us, and the circumstances of that application aren't so far
> fetched.
> 
> ...and then, they came for me.
> 
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194 
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: buddy at brannan.name
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 31, 2015, at 4:53 PM, Michael Hingson via nfb-talk
> <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Chris should be correct, but I think the law opens a door that should not
> be
>> opened. 
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> 
>> Michael Hingson
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mike Freeman [mailto:k7uij at panix.com] 
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 1:44 PM
>> To: info at michaelhingson.com; 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: RE: [nfb-talk] Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act
>> 
>> Federal law trumps state law and the ADA still applies in the situation of
>> people using guide dogs being refused cab rides.
>> 
>> In other words, I think Chris is correct.
>> 
>> Mike Freeman
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
>> Hingson via nfb-talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 1:24 PM
>> To: 'Chris Nusbaum'; 'NFB Talk Mailing List'; 'John Heim'
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act
>> 
>> Chris,
>> 
>> I respectively disagree. What about the many Islamic oriented taxi drivers
>> who deny the rights of blind persons with guide dogs to ride in their
> cabs?
>> I believe that under this law blind guide dog users can be prevented from
>> equal and total access.
>> 
>> The "Religious Freedom Restoration Act" does effect blind people directly.
>> The law isn't just about gays and lesbians. 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Chris
>> Nusbaum via nfb-talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 12:35 PM
>> To: 'John Heim'; 'NFB Talk Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act
>> 
>> John,
>> 
>> Regardless of our individual feelings on this legislation, I don't think
> it
>> would be appropriate for the NFB to add our collective voice to the
> already
>> strong chorus of opposition to this bill.  Throughout our history we have
>> had a policy which states that we do not officially get involved in
>> political controversies which do not directly effect the blind. If we were
>> to justify our opposition to this legislation by asserting that blind
> people
>> could be effected because there are blind people who are also gay, we
> could
>> use the same logic to justify our collective support of or opposition to
>> virtually every issue with which a federal or state legislature concerns
>> itself. In adopting this line of reasoning, we would begin to lose our
> focus
>> and eventually the very purpose for which our organization is founded. We
>> are an organization which deals specifically with issues which directly
>> effect the blind on account of our blindness. Other matters, however
>> important they might be to an individual blind person, would not fall
> under
>> our jurisdiction and would be contrary to the organizational purposes
>> established in our Constitution.
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Heim
>> via nfb-talk
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 3:12 PM
>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act
>> 
>> 
>> The NFB should issue a statement condemning Indiana's religious freedom
> act.
>> 
>> I've been discriminated against in my life. I once was  turned down for a
>> job because the person who did the interview literally would not believe
>> that a blind person could use a computer. I'd been working as a programmer
>> and systems administrator for 15 years at that point. Another time, I
>> actually diagnosed a network problem during the job interview. I plugged
> my
>> laptop into the network, ran some diagnostics, and explained what the
>> problem was right there during the interview. But I didn't get that job
>> either because they said part of the job was drawing images for their web
>> site. Admittedly, It's debatable whether that second example is
>> discrimination. In fact, I personally would not call it discrimination but
>> people I've mentioned it to have felt otherwise. The point is that I know
>> what it's like being turned down for a job because of something you can't
>> control.  I know what it's like when that happens to you when you're
> worried
>> about having health insurance for your family and making the house
> payment.
>> 
>> I remember coming home from the job interview where I diagnosed the
> network
>> problem, dancing around and telling my wife I'd nailed it. I remember the
>> feeling I got a few days later when she read me the rejection letter that
>> said they really needed someone who could see. I said it was their loss
> and
>> tried to believe it. But we really needed our health insurance.
>> 
>> Now you have a bunch of lawmakers in Indiana telling us it's okay for
>> someone to turn a person down for a job because they're in a gay marriage.
>> Most of those lawmakers in Indiana have probably never been discriminated
>> against in their lives. They don't know what it's like.
>> 
>> What they are doing is just wrong. And even if you don't agree, we in the
>> NFB need to stand  up against discrimination in all of it's forms. 
>> This law is intended for use against gays but there's no reason it can't
> be
>> used against racial minorities or even disabled people.
>> 
>> We have to add our voices to those who have come out against this law. 
>> It's the right thing to do.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> John Heim
>> john at johnheim.com
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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