[nfb-talk] So very proud
JohnC. Scott
jcscot at sbcglobal.net
Thu Sep 29 00:28:20 UTC 2016
Thank you for the lesson Maarianne. I have been blind for fifty years, and
it is good to still be open to lessons. For the other readers and writers
on this list, I wish to mention this. I once took a seminar called the
"Forum". Perhaps some of you are familiar with it. One of the lessons was
called "Always already listening". What this means is the following.
People don't hear what you say. They hear what they are thinking. How
many times have you said something to somebody, and he/she responded as if
they heard something totally different. Actually, we all do it, for
whatever reason. We will even argue with somebody about what they had just
said. In short, we know better what came out of their mouths, than they do.
Even more startling, we sometimes are amazed by what they actually say, or
how they said it. Haven't you found yourself wound up for a fight with
somebody expecting him/her to say something nasty to you, when they say
something cordial. You almost fall over, because you are cocked and ready ,
leaning forward for the fight. Sometimes you will surprise yourself by what
you hear yourself saying.
What does this have to do with the subject being discussed. People say
things without any forethought. So try not to get angry, it only hurts you.
As I say this to all of you, I recognise I am speaking to my self first.
This is just one example. Everytime somebody tells me they are holding the
elevator door open for me, I feel my blood pressure rise just a bit. I use
to say"I thought the door held itself open for everybody! Sometimes I think
to myself, you must be trying to impress somebody on this elevator.
Lately, I sometimes think....You must think I am a doddering old fart that
moves so slow the door will close on me.
Now that I am a lot older and a bit wiser, I try to have an attitude of
gratitude. Gracious instead of salacious. Kind instead a horse's behind.
I remember Kenneth Jernigan writing how terrible he felt, when he threw a
quarter across the street given to him by a person trying to be charitable.
To close this verbose posting, I will leave you with an old aphorism "You
have to be the change you wish to see"
Shalom,
-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Marianne -
Haas via nfb-talk
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 12:23 PM
To: 'NFB Talk Mailing List' <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Marianne - Haas <advocate at earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] So very proud
Good Morning,
I think you are on the ball about accepting assistance and stereotyping. I
used to get extremely angry about all that stuff. Now, I sometimes make
jokes in social situations such as: What do you think I am, blind or
something? I suffered a great deal from stereotypes in job interviews even
for volunteer work. I used to get angry about that also. However, I felt
that I could only educate and change so much. I then realized that if there
was so much stereotyping, I did and do not want to get involved. I, now
attempt to build up my own business.
Apropos accepting assistance:
I feel that many people are scared of people, different from themselves.
They are especially scared if they feel that they could become blind. Of
course, they feel guilty as it is nice to be nice. They then want to help
out of lack of knowledge and to deal with their guilt feelings. They get
mad, if we do not accept the assistance they "so graciously want to give to
us unfortunate blind people". Some people also just do not know what to do
and what not to do. I again got very angry with people, but now say
something like: "Thank you for your assistance, but I can manage this
myself". I Only get mad if they persist. I have even dared to say: "These
are the things I could use your help". Some people even accept that.
I suffer from people not taking me seriously. This is where my focus on
education is.
Marianne
-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Heim
via nfb-talk
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 6:49 AM
To: kaye zimpher; NFB Talk Mailing List
Cc: John Heim
Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] So very proud
Kaye, I think you put your finger on the crux of the problem when you say in
the end, they will still think you are rude no matter how politely you
refuse help.
Here's the deal... I'm sure we've all had this experience where you're
standing at a corner waiting for the light to change or something like that.
Someone comes up and offers to help you. When you reply with a simple, "No
thank you," it doesn't register. It's as if they didn't hear you. There's a
reason for that. I assert that the reason is that to them, you are not a
regular person. You are a blind person.
I've been on the other side of this phenomenon. A while ago I heard a
fashion model interviewed and when they said she had a degree in physics, it
took me a couple of seconds to wrap my mind around it. Did they just say she
has a degree in physics? It's the same thing with blind people. That we
might not be defined by our blindness just doesn't fit into some folk's
conception of the world. This is why I find it so irritating. I know that
guy who offered to help me looks at me as if I am a fashion model. But I'm
not just a pretty face.
Okay, I'm having a little fun with this but it's serius business. When you
go into a job interview, the first thing you have to do is overcome this
hurdle of being defined as a "blind person". Not everybody you interview
with is going to have that preconception But enough people do to make it a
huge problem.
I'm getting dangerously close to discussing the NFB philosophy again which I
promised Dave I wouldnever do. I don't agree with everything the NFB has
done but I don't know how coming out against the blindfold challenge
(whatever it's
called) could be more obvious.
On 09/27/2016 05:47 PM, kaye zimpher via nfb-talk wrote:
> I think as I have gotten older, I have just stopped trying to educate
> people. I know that's a bit sad, but I found some years back, that
> most people don't want to know. They aren't going to change their view
> because I, Kaye, talked to them for 10 minutes. So eventually, I just
> stopped. I try to be polite. I use the usual lines, "No thanks, I'm
> good," or "I think I've got it, but thanks for asking," but in the end
> they will still think I am rude because I didn't allow them to help,
> or I pulled my arm out of someone's hand. I decided to basically just
> let people think what they want and continue with my own life.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Heim via nfb-talk"
> <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "John Heim" <john at johnheim.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 12:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] So very proud
>
>
>> To be clear, I am almost never rude to people who offer to help me.
>> But I am not entirely sure that's a good thing. Are we ethically
>> obligated to grin and bear this patronizing attitude from the general
>> public? Are we doing society a favor by letting that slide? Maybe the
>> world is an ever so slightly better place for that guy knowing he
>> shouldn't just assume a blind person needs help. Maybe he'll give it
>> a little more thought next time.
>>
>>
>> There is no way to explain to someone that they shouldn't assume a
>> blind person, standing at a bus stop, minding their own business,
>> does not need help -- not without causing offense. I defy anyone to
>> come up with a sentence that would not be taken badly in that
>> situation. You need to tell people that they are assuming you need
>> help entirely because you're blind and that that's just not right.
>> They have to think that through before they'll accept it. A sentence
>> or two won't do it.
>>
>>
>> The truth is that I might be more blunt with people who offer
>> unsolicited help if I didn't feel a strong obligation to the blind
>> community as a whole. If it was just me, I'd tell people to mind
>> their own business all the time. Personally, I'd rather people think
>> I was a jerk than think I needed help. Part of the reason I feel that
>> way is that, in fact, I don't need help and they should mind their
>> own business. That's just the truth. But I don't feel that I have the
>> right to decide how to deal with that on behalf of blind people as a
>> whole.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 09/27/2016 11:04 AM, Marianne - Haas via nfb-talk wrote:
>>> Good Morning,
>>> I definitely understand your frustration about people. I get mad
>>> many times. However, I am learning to be nice, but firm. I say
>>> things
>>> like:
>>> Thank you, but I do not need assistance. I get really angry if
>>> people bump into me because they are busy with their electronic
>>> gadgets. I get mad, because I get startled and have gotten hurt.
>>> Not long ago I said:
>>> Watch it,
>>> A.... H.... Now I graduated to saying: Hey watch it. If I have the
>>> chance I will apologize and tell people that it startles me if
>>> people run into me.
>>> Many people have apologized. I am telling you what I am doing and
>>> do in no way want to preach to you.
>>>
>>> Marianne
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfb-talk [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>> John Heim via nfb-talk
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 8:41 AM
>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>> Cc: John Heim
>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] So very proud
>>>
>>> Well, I wouldn't blame Dining In the Dark for that. But, yeah, it's
>>> a problem. I was rude to someone just yesterday evening. I had
>>> stopped at the grocery store on the way home from work and was
>>> standing at the bus stop when a guy came up to me and asked if I was
>>> okay. I knew what he meant right away, of course. But why the f**k
>>> would some stranger think a blind guy standing at a bus stop needs
>>> help? I wasn't that rude. I just said, "Why would you think I'm not
>>> okay?" He gave some vague reply about not knowing what I was doing
>>> to wich I responded -- with the incredulity obvious in my voice,
>>> "I'm waiting for a bus!" Then *he* got mad.
>>>
>>>
>>> That is just so irritating.
>>>
>>>
>>> After he left, I was a little angry at myself for not being more
>>> polite.
>>> But after rethinking it, I almost wish I had kicked his ass. I could
>>> see myself in front of a judge saying, "Your honor, you just have no
>>> idea what it's like."
>>>
>>>
>>> [This is tongue-in-cheek, of course. I am the most non-violent
>>> person in the world. I'd never actually hit anybody. I'm just trying
>>> to convey how frustrating this is.]
>>>
>>> On 09/26/2016 04:42 PM, Peter Donahue via nfb-talk wrote:
>>>> Good afternoon John and everyone,
>>>>
>>>> Then left the event and probably told a blind person needing
>>>> occasional hands on deck for reading mail and other tasks that they
>>>> had no business living alone, that their neighborhood was unsafe,
>>>> and they should live in assistive living facility. That happened to
>>>> Mary and I last week. The individual that told us this is a member
>>>> of one of the largest churches in San Antonio, 20,000 members
>>>> including us to be exact. I thought that these days the goal is to
>>>> help those able to live independently stay in their home. This
>>>> church has more than enough able-bodied members that could assist
>>>> us with grocery shopping, reading mail, etc. We offered to give
>>>> some of them gas money for rides too and from church so we could
>>>> attend services regularly. All they said was "Don't worry about
>>>> it." Due to problems with public transportation we ceased attending
church regularly.
>>>>
>>>> This particular church plans to establish what it calls its
>>>> Sanctuary of Hope. One of it's missions is to be an alternative to
>>>> Planned Parenthood which will assist unwed mothers with learning to
>>>> care for their babies when they're borne, finishing their
>>>> education, finding employment, and helping them get on their feet.
>>>> Given their attitude towards helping the blind members of their
>>>> congragation God help any unwed blind mothers who may seek help
>>>> from the Sanctuary of Hope when it begins operation unless this
>>>> outfit has a serious change of attitude! Here is a classic case of
>>>> why the antics of outfits like the Foundation for Fighting
>>>> Blindness need to be stopped and organizations like the NFB avoid
engaging in similar activities.
>>>> Several Dining-in-the-Dark events were hosted by the Texas
>>>> Affiliate until a resolution was passed in 2011 condemning these
>>>> events and forbidding NFB affiliates from engaging in them. Mary
>>>> and I were there when the resolution was adopted.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>> John Heim via nfb-talk wrote:
>>>>> I'm not surprised that the NFB has come out against this.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's kind of an odd choice by the FFB. I was once a waiter at an
>>>>> FFB Dining In the Dark event. That was a blast, by the way. I had
>>>>> a great time. I was going around making fun of the people at my
>>>>> table for not even being able to stuff food in their mouths. They
>>>>> took it really well and pretty soon they were all actually trying
>>>>> instead of being deliberately helpless. I went up to the guy who
>>>>> was most into it and pretended to pour him a glass of champaign,
>>>>> making a popping sound effect with my mouth. He played right along
>>>>> and
the woman on the
>>>>> other side of him actually asked for a glass too. It was hilarious
>>>>> and the whole night was just a blast.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Even so, I'm not sure I'd do it again. A couple of things bothered
>>>>> me. First, in the after party, a lot of people seemed to think I
>>>>> really was a waitor. I'm like, "No, I manage the research
>>>>> computers for the math department at the University of Wisconsin.
>>>>> I'm just doing this to raise money for the FFB." Admittedly, it's
>>>>> a little egotistical for that to bother me. I was a little
>>>>> insulted to think that people didn't assume I had a real job. The
>>>>> second thing was that a hefty percentage of the people, even those
>>>>> at my table, remained unconvinced. I pointed out that with a
>>>>> little effort, they had figured out how to feed themselves and I
>>>>> had had no problems serving as their waitor. You get used to it,
>>>>> right? But they weren't really buying it. Maybe a little. I'm not
>>>>> sure
I did any good. Hard to say.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, this is a thing that has puzzled me for years. I have
>>>>> friends who still think being blind is absolutely horrible --
>>>>> except for for me. When I point out that I am doing fine, better
>>>>> than they are in some cases, they don't think that is proof that
>>>>> being blind isn't so bad. They think I'm some kind of special case
>>>>> or
something.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 09/26/2016 11:53 AM, Devin Prater via nfb-talk wrote:
>>>>>> Oh yes, I was nicely surprised when the NFB stood against that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Devin Pratersent from Gmail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 11:49 AM, beth.wright--- via nfb-talk <
>>>>>> nfb-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi, fellow listers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just wanted to say how very proud I am of the NFB for taking a
>>>>>>> courageous stand against this misguided blindfold challenge
>>>>>>> campaign by the Foundation Fighting Blindness. I've been a
>>>>>>> Federationist for over forty years, been on the PAC plan for a
>>>>>>> long time, and thus made a donation online. I encourage others
>>>>>>> to do the same. Now is the time to stand up and be counted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Beth Wright
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>
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>>> --
>>> John Heim
>>> john at johnheim.com
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>> John Heim
>> john at johnheim.com
>>
>>
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>
>
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--
John Heim
john at johnheim.com
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