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Your objections have been around for years. The other side of what
you say is that maybe most of us vote the way we do because that is how
we feel. I know it is that way for me. If I find myself disagreeing with
51 percent of NFB decisions, or more, if not I will stay and work to
represent my views.<br><br>
Dave<br><br>
At 08:28 PM 6/19/2024, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Hello,<br><br>
I will probably be chastised by this forum for speaking my mind, but,
after seeing some of these viewpoints, I am afraid I cannot stay
silent.<br><br>
When I first joined the NFB in the mid 90s, I did feel the sense of this
condescending attitude that others have hinted. Frankly, it started with
the cane I was carrying vs. the standard one carried by NFB party
members. People said that I was behind compared to others. Behind in
what? Behind in my lack of arrogance? Then the notion that blindness is a
mere physical inconvenience. While this sort of philosophy does,
indeed, instill confidence, it hardly leans on practicality.
Finally, the perfunctory rubber-stamp votes at conventions where everyone
simply says "yay," to approve resolutions without any accurate
count. What that smacks of is the memable NFB adage that "We walk
alone but march together." I would add that we simply march
together, and have forgotten anything about being able to walk alone,
with any modicum of independent thinking.<br><br>
Thank you.<br><br>
Rajiv<br><br>
<hr>
<b>From: </b>"Raul Gallegos - NAGDU via nFB-Talk"
<nfb-talk@nfbnet.org><br>
<b>To: </b>"NFB Talk Mailing List"
<nfb-talk@nfbnet.org><br>
<b>Cc: </b>"Raul Gallegos - NAGDU"
<rgallegos@nagdu.org><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, June 19, 2024 7:35:34 PM<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [NFB-Talk] Partial Vision Interest Groups?<br><br>
Hello all. Earlier in this thread, Mike Hingson recommended that the
article, “definition of blindness” be read. In case someone needs a
link to one of the several places it appears on the NFB site, here it
is.<br><br>
<a href="https://nfb.org/blog/definition-blindness">
https://nfb.org/blog/definition-blindness</a><br><br>
<br><br>
I hope this helps.<br><br>
<br><br>
--<br><br>
Raul Gallegos, President<br><br>
National Association of Guide Dog Users<br><br>
(346) 439-7444
<a href="mailto:rgallegos@nagdu.org">rgallegos@nagdu.org</a><br><br>
<a href="http://www.nfb.org/" eudora="autourl">www.nfb.org</a>
<a href="https://d.docs.live.net/df04fbdd43ea5830/Documents/www.nagdu.org">
www.nagdu.org</a><br><br>
<a href="https://calendar.google.com/calendar/ical/nagdu.org_7eopjofhnd4968m46rcmgrck0s%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics">
Subscribe to the NAGDU public calendar</a><br><br>
<a href="https://facebook.com/groups/nagdu">Facebook Group</a>
<a href="https://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org">Email
list</a>
<a href="https://nfb.social/@GuideDogUsers">Mastodon</a><br><br>
“You can live the life you want. Blindness is not what holds you
back.”<br><br>
<br><br>
<b>From:</b> mike@michaelhingson.com <mike@michaelhingson.com>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 19, 2024 11:22 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> NFB Talk Mailing List <nfb-talk@nfbnet.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Raul Gallegos - NAGDU <rgallegos@nagdu.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [NFB-Talk] Partial Vision Interest Groups?<br><br>
<br><br>
I agree with Raul here. I am sure there are sighted people who look down
on other sighted people who have not learned to read or who have a
disability such as dyslexia. Traditionally in our race of beings some
like to think they are better than others.<br><br>
<br><br>
Within the NFB we do work to make all welcome and comfortable. The
organization does NOT have a philosophy that segregates. As I said
yesterday, using Dr. Jernigan’s definition of blindness, people are
blind when their eyesight has diminished to the point that they need to
use alternatives to their eyes in order to accomplish tasks and function.
I do realize there are low vision people who do wish to think they are
different than blind people, but in reality if you think about it, that
“difference” is artificial.<br><br>
<br><br>
If you read my article in the Braille Monitor concerning disabilities,
you will see that I contend that EVERYONE has a disability including
light dependent people whose disability is simply covered up by “light
on demand” being so prevalent.<br><br>
<br><br>
<br><br>
Best Regards,<br><br>
<br><br>
<br><br>
Michael Hingson<br><br>
<br><br>
<b>From:</b> nFB-Talk
<<a href="mailto:nfb-talk-bounces@nfbnet.org">
nfb-talk-bounces@nfbnet.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Raul Gallegos -
NAGDU via nFB-Talk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 19, 2024 8:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> NFB Talk Mailing List
<<a href="mailto:nfb-talk@nfbnet.org">nfb-talk@nfbnet.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Raul Gallegos - NAGDU
<<a href="mailto:rgallegos@nagdu.org">rgallegos@nagdu.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NFB-Talk] Partial Vision Interest Groups?<br><br>
<br><br>
Hi there, I am sorry to hear that you have had experiences like that. And
all the years that I have been a member of the national federation of the
blind, I have never encountered that type of elitist behavior. Although I
read braille, I only read it with one hand and it is not all that fast.
Whether I interact with people who can read three times faster than me or
three times slower than me, it has never been an issue. <br>
When it comes to auditory listening, as in from a speech synthesizer, I
feel that there are appropriate times to rely on it and appropriate times
not to. Sometimes, I will personally use speech over braille, and
sometimes the other way around, but again, it depends on the situation. I
have never felt like anybody has looked down in a condescending fashion
because of my preferences. Likewise, I don't think of anyone as a lesser
person if they rely completely on speech or if they are not a braille
reader. <br><br>
<br>
-- <br>
Raul Gallegos / President <br>
National Association of Guide Dog Users <br>
346.439.7444 |
<a href="mailto:RGallegos@nagdu.org">RGallegos@nagdu.org</a> <br>
<a href="https://www.nagdu.org/" eudora="autourl">
https://www.nagdu.org</a> <br><br>
Jun 19, 2024 10:46:39 AM Bryan Schulz via nFB-Talk
<<a href="mailto:nfb-talk@nfbnet.org">nfb-talk@nfbnet.org</a>>:<br>
<dl><br>
<dd>Hi,<br><br>
<dd>Along with this, there seems to be an elitist thought that people who
physically cannot read braille or those who prefer synthetic speech are
looked down on!<br><br>
<dd>Bryan<br><br>
<dd>From:</b> nFB-Talk
<<a href="mailto:nfb-talk-bounces@nfbnet.org">
nfb-talk-bounces@nfbnet.org</a>> On Behalf Of </b>Misty Kienzynski via
nFB-Talk<br>
<dd>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 19, 2024 10:15 AM<br>
<dd>To:</b> NFB Talk Mailing List
<<a href="mailto:nfb-talk@nfbnet.org">nfb-talk@nfbnet.org</a>><br>
<dd>Cc:</b> Misty Kienzynski
<<a href="mailto:mkienzyn@alumni.iu.edu">mkienzyn@alumni.iu.edu</a>
><br>
<dd>Subject:</b> Re: [NFB-Talk] Partial Vision Interest Groups?<br><br>
<dd>I find it interesting how, when one expresses a thoughtful point of
view which, yes, may butt up against the prevailing opinions within
leadership, many are ready an willing to show one the proverbial door and
to ask one not to let it hit one on the way out<br>
<dd><<br><br>
<dd>I love our organization and I want to see it continue to grow, even
at the fundamental philosophical level. I want to remain, but I want to
see NFB become better by the day, but I also have my own interests to
consider, and this is why I am inquiring about CCLVI at this
moment.<br><br>
<dd>OK, so, this is a bit of a tangent, but, here goes<br><br>
<dd>I think these kinds of blindness philosophy discussions are more than
needed within our organization. I honestly believe that our
organizations’ philosophy is still far from complete and will indeed
probably never be complete, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. I
really believe that its philosophy needs to continue to be refined and to
adapt to present and emerging currents of thought not only within the
membership but within the wider blind and pan-disabled community.
(Really, despite the fact that we were once at the vanguard of the
disability rights movement, I think we would now benefit from learning a
thing or two from what is going on regarding current disability
philosophy among our other disabled brothers and sisters as well.) If one
currently does not exist, I would love to have some space created where
those in leadership and even other members could engage in discussion
and/or refinement of NFB/blindness philosophy issues. It is true, our
founders are rightly to be revered for their profound, meaningful and
influential thought leadership, They have taken us far and deserve all
the credit they receive for it. but times change and notions evolve and
older ideas, I believe, deserve periodic reconsideration and
rethinking.<br><br>
<dd><br><br>
<dd>Ms. Misty D. Kienzynsko, M.A.<br><br>
<dd>Bonitas non est pessimis esse meliorem. L. Annaeus Seneca<br><br>
<dd> <br>
<dl><br>
<dd>On Jun 19, 2024, at 10:52 AM, kaye Zimpher via nFB-Talk
<<a href="mailto:nfb-talk@nfbnet.org">nfb-talk@nfbnet.org</a>>
wrote:<br><br>
<dd>Greetings Misty:<br><br>
<dd>I think that this is one of the things that sets us apart from the
American council of the blind. We see all blind people as equal, whether
they have some vision or whether they don’t. I think this is a point in
which a person with partial vision has to make a decision. Do you want to
be a part of our organization where we know that we are all equal,
regardless of how we deal with certain life situations, or do we want to
be a part of an organization who holds sided people with higher reference
and superiority. I think this is some thing that only you can decide. No
one should make you feel bad about your decision either. I wish you well.
<br><br>
<dd>Sent from my iPhone<br><br>
<dd> <br>
<dl><br>
<dd>On Jun 19, 2024, at 10:30 AM, Misty Kienzynski via nFB-Talk
<<a href="mailto:nfb-talk@nfbnet.org">nfb-talk@nfbnet.org</a>>
wrote:<br><br>
<dd>I do know that there are a lot of partially sighted people like me
who feel that there is in fact a “reverse hierarchy” of blindness at
play within our organization wherein people who live an entirely blind
life are at the top and those with increasingly more vision who live our
lives utilizing various amounts of our remaining sight find ourselves
falling toward the bottom.<br><br>
<dd>And, honestly, having a special interest group around low vision
etc., I would argue, is not about hierarchy at all. It is merely about
different ways of living and, heck, might even speak toward our
increasing DEI(A) initiatives.<br><br>
<dd>Indeed, all of us should be equally included in our efforts.<br><br>
<dd>P.S.: I realize that I initially stated that I was not intending to
create controversy, but, since the philosophical angle has arisen, I felt
I needed to reply on behalf of myself and probably many other partially
sighted blind people within our midst.<br><br>
<dd>Thank you for your consideration.<br><br>
<dd>Sincerely,<br><br>
<dd><br><br>
<dd>Ms. Misty D. Kienzynski, M.A.<br><br>
<dd>Bonitas non est pessimis esse meliorem. L. Annaeus Seneca<br><br>
<dd> <br>
<dl><br>
<dd>On Jun 18, 2024, at 5:41 PM, kaye Zimpher via nFB-Talk
<<a href="mailto:nfb-talk@nfbnet.org">nfb-talk@nfbnet.org</a>>
wrote:<br><br>
<dd>You are correct that such special interest groups do not exist. The
reason for this is that our philosophy in the national Federation of the
blind does not believe in the hierarchy of sight. We are all equal and we
should conduct ourselves as such. Having partial vision does not give one
a superiority over those who do not. We welcome Those who have full site
and partial vision. However, we all walk together through life and
experience our blindness and different ways. We can share with each
other, help each other, learn from each other, and support each other,
but we do not form a hierarchy or segregation among visual acuities. I
hope this answer is succinct and helps you, and in future, if you still
do not find the NFB as the place that you would feel most
comfortable, my recommendation would be that you first look upon the
website and listen to or read some of the many speeches and publications
that discuss these matters and layout our philosophy and detail. If after
that, you still do not agree, then you must do what is best for you.
<br><br>
<dd>Sent from my iPhone<br><br>
<dd> <br>
<dl><br>
<dd>On Jun 18, 2024, at 4:53 PM, Misty Kienzynski via nFB-Talk
<<a href="mailto:nfb-talk@nfbnet.org">nfb-talk@nfbnet.org</a>>
wrote:<br><br>
<dd>Greetings.<br><br>
<dd>I recall being told a while ago that NFB has no special interest
groups, divisions, etc. etc., even informally, that relate to the unique
needs/interests of those who have useable vision and seek to utilize it
most efficiently for themselves, which, as a low vision person, I would
argue is our right to do.<br><br>
<dd>It is far from my intention to jin up controversy about this here on
this list, though I believe that this issue does deserve further
discussion at a more appropriate time and place, but I’m wondering if
the status of this situation has changed and,if so, which entities may
now exist to address this gap in outreach within NFB.<br><br>
<dd>I have honestly thought to go so far as to join that “other
organization”’s CCLVI to address this issue for myself, but I would
much prefer to remain within my own organization’s walls for
this.<br><br>
<dd>Thanking you for any info you are able to provide.<br><br>
<dd><br><br>
<dd>Ms. Misty D. Kienzynski<br><br>
<dd>Bonitas non est pessimis esse meliorem. L. Annaeus Seneca>
</dl>
</dl>
</dl>
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