[NFB-Web] Terminology shift

Sun Jul 5 16:25:23 UTC 2020

Sorry, but this discussion is ridiculous and a waste of space in my inbox.
I really have no interest in communicating with folks who are so sensitive
as to be offended by long-established vocab as webmaster, etc - so to save
my sanity, I'm leaving this list.  Later.

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 11:32 AM Peter via NFB-Web <nfb-web at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
>         Especially when the NFB has bigger fish to fry than ridiculous
> squabbles over what we call someone or something. There's way too much of
> this junk going on today. The NFB doesn't need to be encumbered by such
> stuff.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NFB-Web <nfb-web-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of David Mehler via
> NFB-Web
> Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2020 9:18 AM
> To: NFB Webmaster's List <nfb-web at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: David Mehler <dave.mehler at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NFB-Web] Terminology shift
>
> IMO all this PC stuff is more of a bother than it's worth. I wasn't raised
> PC, and speak how I speak, I figure I'm to set in my ways to change, and
> while I don't set out to intentionally offend or hurt others with my words,
> if they are offended then they can either choose to bring it to me civilly
> and we can discuss it civilly and try to reach an accomodation or go away
> mad and stay offended in which case it's a them problem. I do not believe
> in change for the sake of change especially when what your changing does
> not stand any time tests.
>
> On 7/5/20, Erik Burggraaf via NFB-Web <nfb-web at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > Hi Darrell,
> >
> >> On Jul 4, 2020, at 9:05 PM, Darrell Shandrow via NFB-Web
> >> <nfb-web at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Do we have to over think this?
> >>
> > We do have to think very seriously and carefully about it.  This is
> > far from a cut and dried issue.  I would be the last one to
> > intentionally use wording for the purpose of offending some party or
> > other, but I also love language and using words in context the way the
> language intends them to be used.
> > Most words have more than one meaning.  Many have 10 or even 20
> > meanings and general usages.  To transfer a feeling onto a word and
> > try to flush that word down the toilet is to dispense with all of it’s
> > other meaning and context.  Since the intent is at issue here, not the
> > word, I could use many words to intentionally convey the superiority
> > of my view and the inferiority of yours.  Should we outlaw any and all
> > words that have negative undertones or connotations to any group or
> > characteristic or class of people and only use the least offensive
> > word in every situation at the cost of our human expression?
> >
> >> We're simply making the responsible decision to change some of the
> >> words we choose.
> >> Are we making a responsible decision or are we running with our gutt
> >> because of traumatic recent events?  In my experience, over
> >> censorship of the words we use generates as much coltural backlash as
> >> the original problem.  To bring this home, when blind people talk in
> >> America, thousands of people cheer.  When Sighted people say
> >> Blindness is a cancer here in Canada thousands of people cheer.  The
> >> difference in the way blindness and blind people are viewed in
> >> between the two countries is so dramatic that blind people of good
> >> sense either cower behind any accomplishment or success they can
> >> generate for themselves and hope the sighted pass them by, or they
> >> flee this country and go to America.  It’s alright to say blind here
> >> if you are totally blind you poor thing, but if you have any sight at
> all, you don’t say blind.  You hang a one of a panoply of terms
> >> on yourself.   Visually impaired , low vision, sight saving, legally
> >> blind, and a whole lot more.  The blind who have sight take refuge
> >> from the stigma and fear of blindness in all these pc terms,
> >> convincing themselves that all the terminology means more sight than a
> blind person.
> >> In fact, the sighted are already conscious  of the fact that they
> >> have more sight than we do.  The Legalistic vocabulary merely draws
> >> attention to the fact that they the sighted are the haves and we the
> >> visually impaired are the have nots.  In NFB parlance, the blind can
> >> compete with the sighted on terms of equality given training and
> >> opportunity, but we have the blind trying to compete with the sighted
> >> on terms of sight and that is setting people up to fail.  On top of
> >> that,, people are vehemently afraid to say the word blind to my face,
> >> but they don’t know how to ask which of the over pc euphemisms I
> >> prefer.  So they sand in front of me rooted to the spot with fear at
> confronting my blindness.
> >
> > I have been a webmaster off and on for over 20 years.  In fact, I
> > remember you from the first ever web design course I took with Cathy
> > Ann that started me out on my first windows computer.  I’ve earned my
> > crust at various times with it.  I’ve helped people and organizations
> > do better.  I’ve met great people.  In fact, being a webmaster to me
> > has contains connotationss of service because the people I helped with
> > my skill could not possibly have done what I have done.  They wouldn’t
> > have the time or the interest, even if they had the talent.  In being
> > of service I grew my own knowledge, increased my own resources and
> > generally became stronger and better.  Does society not have a
> > responsibility to acknowledge my very positive experience and
> > connotations surrounding the word webmaster?  Why should I trade my
> > good memories and positive experiences for something that doesn’t
> currently mean anything to me, even if I would continue to grow as a web…
> something else?
> >
> >> In your examples, we can easily replace the word "master" with "expert.”
> > Yes we can, but what if the word “expert” falls out of favour because
> > not all people are “expert” in all things?  Suppose that it becomes
> > unfashionable to assert your own expertise in any subject lest you
> > offend they who have not your expertise, even if they themselves have
> > expertise which you do not.  They in tern would never hurt your
> > feelings by asserting expertise in their own field so as not to
> > diminish you for having not their expertise.  And if you think that
> > sounds far fetched, look how many programs for children have dispensed
> > with anything that smacks of competition.  To declare a winner is not
> > to celebrate the achievement of some children but to declare the lack
> > of achievement of others.  We can’t have the losers feeling down about
> themselves.  So, we just won’t celebrate any winners.
> >
> >> We evolve. The world changes. Why don't we show our ability and
> >> willingness to change with it?
> >
> > We should never change with the world for the sake of change.  We
> > should be working together to make positive change that benefits as
> > many people as possible.  We should understand and direct the change
> > with our input, and make good compromises that benefit as many people
> > as possible.  We should understand all the ramifications of the
> > changes we make and think about the long term impact.  Blithely
> > adopting every new idea is at least as bad as fearing change.  If we
> > don’t evolve, we die, but our evolutions need to be long term
> responsible and mutually beneficial.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Darrell
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: NFB-Web <nfb-web-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of David
> >> Goldfield via NFB-Web
> >> Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 4:58 PM
> >> To: NFB Webmaster's List <nfb-web at nfbnet.org>
> >> Cc: David Goldfield <david.goldfield at outlook.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [NFB-Web] Terminology shift
> >>
> >> If someone is very good and skilled at telling stories is it then
> >> wrong to say that this person is a master storyteller? To say that
> >> one has mastered a certain skill doesn't imply that the skill in
> >> question is a slave of that individual. It just means that the person
> >> is particularly good with that particular skill. If this is the case
> >> then I'm wondering if the term webmaster necessarily has racist
> >> undertones? If I am called a webmaster does that mean that the Web
> >> site or the Web authoring tool that I use is my slave? Does a master
> >> piano player consider the piano to be his or her slave or servant?
> >> I'm just putting these questions out there as food for thought.
> >> No controversy or disrespect is intended.
> >>
> >>
> >> David Goldfield,
> >> Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist JAWS Certified, 2019
> >>
> >> WWW.DavidGoldfield.org
> >>
> >> On 7/4/2020 6:36 PM, Darrell Shandrow via NFB-Web wrote:
> >>> Hello Everybody,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This is not ridiculous at all, and it is easy for us to change.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Instead of webmaster, we can talk about a web administrator or
> >>> website manager.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Instead of master and slave (for old IDE hardware, servers
> >>> configured in high-availability mode, etc.) we can use terms like
> >>> primary and
> >> secondary.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hope this helps.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Darrell
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: NFB-Web <nfb-web-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Skye via
> >>> NFB-Web
> >>> Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2020 10:19 AM
> >>> To: nfb-web at nfbnet.org
> >>> Cc: Skye <Starry_sky at live.com>
> >>> Subject: [NFB-Web] Terminology shift
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hey all - there is a concerted effort in the technology community to
> >>> retire the use of certain terms that references an overlord/master
> >>> superiority (or terms with racial overtones).  So being a "webmaster"
> >>> is no longer an acceptable term or title.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>   _____
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2020 14:29:35 -0400
> >>> From:  <mailto:blind at trailstone.com> <blind at trailstone.com>
> >>> To: "'NFB Webmaster's List'"  <mailto:nfb-web at nfbnet.org>
> >>> <nfb-web at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Subject: [NFB-Web] NFB national convention webmaster division annual
> >>> meeting
> >>>
> >>> Gary,
> >>>
> >>> Is there an agenda for the webmaster division at the NFB national
> >>> convention yet?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Tuesday, July 14, 2020
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 6:00 - 7:30 PM-WEBMASTERS MEETING
> >>>
> >>> . A meeting for all NFB affiliate and division webmasters to discuss
> >>> the importance of an informative, accessible, and visually
> >>> attractive
> >> website.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> . Gary Wunder, Chair
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Graham Mehl
> >>>
> >>> blind at trailstone.com <mailto:blind at trailstone.com>
> >>>
> >>> NFB Central Maryland Chapter, President
> >>>
> >>> NFB of Maryland Website and Technology Committee, Chair
> >>>
> >>> LCB graduate, 2016
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> %40gmai
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> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
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> >
>
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