[Nfbc-info] [nabs-l] Follow NFB on Twitter

Sun Feb 1 22:07:49 UTC 2009

Good afternoon Chuck and listers,

    What individuals do where social networks are concerned is their 
business. The thing that concerns me is we the National Federation of the 
Blind, who is supposed  to champion Web site  accessibility knowingly 
established a presence on social sites with known accessibility issues in 
the name of the organization. I believe this has created a serious 
credibility problem for us, and might very well compromise our chances of 
winning in the courts if litigation is necessary. The very fact that the NFB 
has a presence on these social networks is something those who operate them 
would gladly use to argue against us in court. It's unfortunate that this 
has happened.

Peter Donahue

 ----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] [nabs-l] Follow NFB on Twitter

What you are saying is true and is all the more reason either to litigate or
enact legislation implementing standard web accessibility guidelines rather
than making them voluntary. While there was much publicity from the Target
settlement unfortunately in a strict sense because it was settled out of
court it did not set a strict legal precedent. What I'm stating here is
strictly an interpretation of general legal theory because we still have an
uphill battle. I have experienced the same things with some of the Internet
survey sites and have been in contact with several of the companies. Some
have been receptive and have resolved this issue, others have not. In many
cases I have found that they were just not aware of the limitations or their
web designers did what was most expedient without thinking. Perhaps some of
the sweep stakes and shopping sites will be receptive if contacted.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Peterson" <its_mike at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 11:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] [nabs-l] Follow NFB on Twitter

>    Hi chuck.I hope your wrong on this. .  Lots of sites we may use most
> likely use capcha for various reasons.  Our access is limited on those
> glamor magazine for example has a sweepstakes that has a visual capcha I
> was entering sweepstakes to-night and a number of sites I had to just
> leave because I by virtue of a nonverbal captchea was denied access.
> Lots of good prizes too.
> hgtv.com has a Dream home worth two million dollars they are giving away
> next month it's in Senoma california compleetely furnished.
> That site doesn't have captchea problems but it still gives me fits.
> I have a couple entries there but I'm working on figuring out why I'm
> having problems now and it might be i e8 not sure just yet.
> But I could make you a list of sites that by virtue of a box and the words
> enter the above code word or number limit access to their sites.  They are
> commercial sites that in some cases have actual stores.
>
> Go to http://www.ezsweeps.com
> start entering the manual sweepstakes those "you enter yourself.
> the site will select more than 100 sweepstakes for you depending on what
> you select.
> Than scroll up and open the sweepstakes.
> After you enter a sweeps save it to your portfolio for further entry if
> desired or skip to the next one either action will take you to a new
> contest.
>
> See how many of them which include very popular products we all may use
> limit us with visual captchea and no sound at all.
> Should we just stop buying their products and using their sites?
> If we did would they care?
> Also who has the money to pay for all these lawsuits one case at a time
> especially with this faultering ecconamy.
> at best a very limited number of suits will be filed maybe two or three a
> year and how long do we wait for full access to the internet.
> But again, we can set up our own networks or go to less known ones and we
> can ask our friends / coworkers to do the same.
> But will those who can see boycott the other social networks?  If they
> won't what makes you think our level of access even to them will be the
> same. Also as an entry level employee am I likely to get my company to
> remove it's presence from the big three?  If the executives won't remove
> their presence most likely employees climbing the political ladder there
> will participate with them on the social networks.
>
> The back of the bus is still on the bus I guess but I'm glad Ms Parks
> didn't settle for that.
> boycotting the big sites won't solve the problem.
> And, as all ready noted,  if your correct the battle is lost!!Not will be,
> or could be it's a done deal!
>
> NFB all ready has a visible presence on all three sites MySpace, FaceBook,
> and Twitter.
> Reversing and going away won't change the facts and would look phony.
> We're all ready there!
> Would going away make a difference?? Would that weaken  the argument by
> there lawyers? Did the NFB presence begin there prior to these problems? I
> am fairly certain the problems were there prior to our"Official"  presence
> in most if not all cases.
> People with screen readers are using these networks to a degree every day
> some more effectively than others.
>>From the window eyes list I discovered:
> "> You can learn about using Facebook with screen readers in general by
>> listening to the latest Tech chat found at:
>>
> www.serotalk.com
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>; "National Association
> of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 8:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] [nabs-l] Follow NFB on Twitter
>
>
>> This is a very valid point. If we are using the site that has captia
>> features with sighted assistance then we have no cause of action and have
>> lost the battle.
>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>> 1237 P Street
>> Fresno ca 93721
>> 559-266-9237
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 7:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] [nabs-l] Follow NFB on Twitter
>>
>>
>>> Hello Linda and listers,
>>>
>>> It's also possible to invite Myspace and facebook contacts to join us on
>>> non-CAPTCHA Social Networks. And furthermore what's to stop these  folks
>>> from arguing against us in court saying that, "Despite our use of
>>> CAPTCHAS
>>> you folks still find ways to use our services so why should we change
>>> things?" Has anyone contemplated that possibility?
>>>
>>>    I know of two social sites which I've set up accounts on that don't
>>> require the use of any visual verification. They are www.linkedin.com
>>> and
>>> www.instantspot.com. If we're going to create presences on these
>>> networks
>>> why hasn't the NFB gotten "Linked In" or "Spotted?" This is a means to
>>> and
>>> end that could backfire on us in the courts big-time.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
>
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