[Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Tue Feb 9 15:23:07 UTC 2010
Yes, we do not need to be paternalistic in offering our services. This would
be akin to an attorney doing ambulance chasing. It diminishes our
credibility when we do not allow people to utilize and choose how they
proceed and the manner of representation.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
> Darian:
>
> Chris is the immediate past President of ACB. He therefore (a) knows NFB
> and NFBC are here and (b) presumably has the full faith, backing and
> resources of ACB to assist him to seek resolution of the incident.
> Moreover, Mitch Pomerantz, current ACB President, lives in your fair
> state. You can bet your booties that he is aware of the situation.
>
> I am not saying NFB and NFBC shouldn't help. All I am saying is that we
> should let Chris et al come to us. If he wishes our help, we will gladly
> give it. But, given politics, I see little reason to tread where we are
> presumably not needed or wanted.
>
> Let me put it another way: were Mary to face discrimination as a teacher,
> how likely do you think it would be for ACB to call her up offering to
> help or, for that matter, for her to accept such help?
>
> As I say, I'm not saying we shouldn't help. All I am saying is that we
> should do Chris et al the courtesy of allowing them to choose whom they
> would have advocate for them.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com>
> To: NFB of California List <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Tuesday, Feb 9, 2010 0:13:05
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>
>>
>>
>> This situation is not only unfortunate an frustrating, but
>> absolutely out of line.
>> I have a few thoughts, if I may:
>> 1. a very frustrating thing is it seems as if Law enforcement knows
>> not it's responsibility to enforce all of the laws it must. It
>> almost seems as if Police officers and the like have no
>> understanding of the ADA and/or how to operate around individuals
>> with disabilities.
>>
>> 2. in addition to the information given, would it not be wise to
>> include Shannon Dillon's contact information- as she is the current
>> president of cagdu-- the state where this all took place is in
>> california, after all.
>> Also, what's the harm in having either Mary willows/ Chuck
>> Krugman, or both contact these individuals as needed?
>> somehow, I'm thinking it does not matter if they were members of
>> ACB, NFV or PETA; the main thing is that these indivviduals should be
>> made aware that not only do they have resources, but actual people-
>> people in state that can support them should they need it.
>> Please forgive my corniness, but these people are blind people
>> like you and I, they have been treated unfairly and unjustly by
>> so-called professionals that are supposed to provide the highest
>> quility of service and they've far from done this. We in the NFB
>> want first- class citizanship for all blind people and if we truly
>> want this, there is little doubt in my mind that we should be ready
>> and willing to step in as needed.
>> just my thoughts,
>> Darian
>>
>>
>> On 2/8/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I think by supplying the information we have provided, both in
>> > resources and
>> > oppinion, the people involved will probably make the right decision as
>> > to
>> > wehter or not they should go forward in this issue. I believe that at
>> > the
>> > moment the affiliation does not matter, what matters is that we have
>> > done
>> > what we can at the moment to provide the information necessary to move
>> > forward if they wish to do so. It is up to the parties involved to ask
>> > for
>> > further assistance if they find it necessary to do so.
>> > Aziza
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>> > To: <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>> > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 5:42 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>> >
>> >
>> >ar Given the affiliation of the aggrieved parties, perhaps it would be
>> >wise
>> >ar to ascertain if they wish assistance in putting their case.
>> >ar
>> >ar Mike Freeman
>> >ar
>> >ar ----- Original Message -----
>> >ar From: unknown <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>> >ar To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>> >ar Date: Monday, Feb 8, 2010 17:15:29
>> >ar Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>> >ar
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> The appropriate things to do regarding this matter are as follows:
>> >>> 1. If the City of Oakland has an ADA coordinator file an official
>> >>> complaint
>> >>> with the City as if this is a paratransit company under contract with
>> >>> the
>> >>> city to provide paratransit services they are responsible. for
>> >>> implementation of service and a need to insure that staff are
>> >>> appropriately
>> >>> trained. 2. Officially file a complaint with U.S. Department of
>> >>> Justice
>> >>> as a
>> >>> definite ADA violation occurred. The procedures for filing such a
>> >>> complaint
>> >>> are available at www.ada.gov.
>> >>> While it is important to make people aware of what happened change
>> >>> can
>> >>> only
>> >>> occur if official documentation in the form of ADA complaints are
>> >>> filed.
>> >>> For
>> >>> the record I am not aware of any circumstances where a public transit
>> >>> driver
>> >>> can refuse to transport a properly identified service animal. Not
>> >>> only is
>> >>> this clearly a violation of the ADA it is also a violation of
>> >>> California
>> >>> law
>> >>> as well. If needed I can research and furnish the appropriate
>> >>> citation.
>> >>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>> >>> President, NFB Central Valley Chapter
>> >>> 1237 P Street
>> >>> Fresno ca 93721
>> >>> 559-266-9237
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Anne Ward" <inland2wards at att.net>
>> >>> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;@smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com;>
>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:29 PM
>> >>> Subject: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> > This was sent to me this morning by Judith Lesner, who asked me to
>> >>> > distribute it widely.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Anne Ward
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Discrimination in Oakland?
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Last night my very good friend Marvelena Quesada was told that she
>> >>> > had
>> >>> > to
>> >>> > "sit in the back of the bus". In this case, an East Bay
>> >>> > ParaTransit
>> >>> > bus.
>> >>> > The person givithng the order was the bus's dispatcher.
>> >>> > Marvelena's
>> >>> > status that led up to the banishment to the back of the bus was her
>> >>> > traveling with Darla. Marvelena is blind and Darla is her seeing
>> >>> > eye
>> >>> > dog.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > To start at the beginning, Marvelena and her husband Chris Gray
>> >>> > came to
>> >>> >
>> >>> > my
>> >>> > house for dinner. They are both blind and Chris is the past
>> >>> > president
>> >>> > of
>> >>> > the American Council of the Blind which is a national consumer
>> >>> > group.
>> >>> > They had arranged to be picked up by East Bay ParaTransit for a
>> >>> > ride
>> >>> > home.
>> >>> > At about 9:15 they got a call that their ride was outside. I
>> >>> > walked
>> >>> > out
>> >>> > with them to bus number 352. The driver asked if the dog was going
>> >>> > along
>> >>> > too. Marvelena replied that it was. The driver then decided that
>> >>> > her
>> >>> > bus
>> >>> > was not positioned correctly and drove about a half block down the
>> >>> > street.
>> >>> > By the time we got to her she was on her cell phone and refused
>> >>> > entry
>> >>> > to
>> >>> > Chris and Marvelena, yelling at them through the partially opened
>> >>> > door
>> >>> > that no one had said anything about a dog and that she had "issues"
>> >>> > with
>> >>> > dogs. She said they had to wait for another paratransit bus to
>> >>> > come
>> >>> > and
>> >>> > take them. Chris said that they had a legal right to get on the
>> >>> > bus
>> >>> > with
>> >>> > the dog and forced his way through the partially opened door and
>> >>> > got on
>> >>> > the bus. The driver slammed the door and wouldn't let Marvelena
>> >>> > and
>> >>> > Darla
>> >>> > on the bus.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Meanwhile the driver was speaking to her dispatcher on a speaker
>> >>> > phone.
>> >>> > That was when the dispatcher made her Solomon like decision to end
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > impasse, "Go take the dog and sit in the back of the bus". I
>> >>> > informed
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > driver and dispatcher that it was no longer the 50's where they
>> >>> > could
>> >>> > get
>> >>> > away with that. Chris and Marvelena said that she would not move
>> >>> > to
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > back. While this was going on, Marvelena and Darla managed to get
>> >>> > on
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > bus. Marvelena was calling paratransit and she and I and another
>> >>> > friend
>> >>> > were conferring through the open door. At that point the passenger
>> >>> > on
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > bus said that she had had it with waiting so long and would walk
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > rest
>> >>> > of the way home. She got off the bus and left. The driver
>> >>> > reported
>> >>> > that
>> >>> > the passenger had left the bus because of the dog which was a
>> >>> > baldfaced
>> >>> > lie. The driver then said that the company was sending another bus
>> >>> > to
>> >>> > take them home.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > This all went on for some time when the driver closed the doors so
>> >>> > that
>> >>> >
>> >>> > we
>> >>> > could no longer talk to Chris and Marvelena, turned out the lights
>> >>> > and
>> >>> > left the bus. Marvelena and Chris were left alone in a locked bus
>> >>> > while
>> >>> > the driver walked half a block away and spoke on her cell phone.
>> >>> > Chris
>> >>> > then called 911 and two Oakland policemen arrived shortly there
>> >>> > after.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > One of the police asked my friend and I what was happening. I
>> >>> > explained
>> >>> > the situation. The policeman said something to the effect that it
>> >>> > depended on the bus company's policy. I said that was nonsense.
>> >>> > That
>> >>> > it
>> >>> > had nothing to do with the bus company, it was a federal law called
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > ADA. Marvelena and her dog had the same right of access to public
>> >>> > places
>> >>> > as Marvelena did on her own. He seemed unaware of the law.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Finally, after the police arrived, another bus arrived to take them
>> >>> > home.
>> >>> > The altercation took about an hour and involved the waste of two
>> >>> > bus
>> >>> > drivers' time as well as that of two Oakland police personnel.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Questions that arise:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > 1.. Why when so many people with disabilities are using service
>> >>> > animals
>> >>> > does a company whose sole clientele are people with disabilities
>> >>> > hire a
>> >>> > driver who will not drive a bus with a dog on it?
>> >>> > 2.. If the company feels compelled to hire folks who are afraid of
>> >>> > dogs,
>> >>> > why do they not routinely ask passengers if they are traveling with
>> >>> > service animals so that they can send a not-afraid driver?
>> >>> > 3.. Why were the driver and the dispatcher not trained by the
>> >>> > company
>> >>> > to
>> >>> > know the laws about access and seeing eye dogs?
>> >>> > 4.. Why was the driver not trained in basic courtesy? She
>> >>> > routinely
>> >>> > yelled at us, slammed doors and at one point told me to "move him."
>> >>> > She
>> >>> > was referring to Chris. I explained that he was a person and he
>> >>> > moved
>> >>> > himself, I did not move him.
>> >>> > 5.. Why are the Oakland Police not trained in the fundamentals of
>> >>> > ADA
>> >>> > access laws?
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Issues to note:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > 1.. Darla was wearing a regulation Seeing Eye harness, did not
>> >>> > make
>> >>> > any
>> >>> > noise, did not show any aggression despite the shouting of the
>> >>> > driver
>> >>> > and
>> >>> > lay on the floor of the bus near Marvelena's feet the entire time.
>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>> > Nfbc-info mailing list
>> >>> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>> >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >>> > for
>> >>> > Nfbc-info:
>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>> >>>
>> >>>
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>> >ar
>> >ar _______________________________________________
>> >ar Nfbc-info mailing list
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>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com
>> >ar
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Darian Smith
>> Skype: The_Bl_Truth
>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>> help! To Get Involved go to:
>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>>
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