[Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
Aziza
daydreamingncolor at gmail.com
Wed Feb 10 04:07:59 UTC 2010
I believe Michael's summed it up nicely.
Something must be done for this issue.
Michael, I understand that the author of the book I read can control the
information I obtain, which is why I've gotten extremely frustrated by
constantly being told to read our history. I believe that if discussions can
be held about the facts and that alone, then people would have a better
understanding of it all.
Thank you.
Aziza Cano
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Peterson" <its.mike at att.net>
To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
> Hi Peter all that being said NFBC and CCB along with other groups did
> work together to establish blind field services in California.I don't know
> who ask who Nancy or their State President.
> If the guide dog users see discrimination against a guide dog user and
> look the other way because it's "the enemy" and for some reason CCB looses
> it's battle when all guide dog users start riding in the back of the
> paratransit bus who is to blame?
> I don't suggest we should force help on CCB or even volunteer it but if a
> paratransit system arbitrarily acts against a guide dog user, any guide
> dog user we should at least deplore that action.
> A resolution cost nothing but sentiment.
> Such a reaction isn't just defending the rude folks who destroyed your
> booth it is in defense of a blind passenger not connected with either
> group who lives in Oakland and has a guide dog.
> This resolution is also in defense of the less recognized NFBC member who
> confronted with the issue might not know how to defend his herself. The
> resolution I would propose has everything to do with guide dog users being
> discriminated against by Oakland Para transit and Nothing to do with Chris
> Gray specifically.
> :
> I have on both this list and the CABS list during the past two years
> very vocally opposed promoting CCB Scholarships on the NFBC site but many
> say a scholarship is a scholarship don't sweat it.
> But than something like this happens and you expect students to see CCBC
> as evil while accepting their good.
> Aziza let me give this word of caution, as for reading the histories even
> that is subjective depending on who writes it.Peter tells about how the
> CCB members trashed his chapters' booth recently I wholeheartedly believe
> this to be fact perhaps not at the bidding of the State administration,
> and at the Fresno convention I think it was Ms Stibers talked about how
> the NFB allegedly brought in bus loads of their members and hijacked the
> CCB Affiliate.
> I'm not clear if it was in fact NFBC members or ex NFBC members under Bob
> Acosta who actually did thatbut Ms Stibers was vehement in opposition to a
> resolution that opens up CCB membership allowing anyone in the world I
> believe to join as members of the State affiliate.
> Just listening to the resolution had I been a CCB member I would agree
> with her you don't leave your membership exposed if there is a posability
> the rival organization could come in and dissolve you.
> But the CCB president and administration didn'tagree and some day her
> words may come back to haunt them.
> She said they took us over before and they could do it again. The
> convention was streamed so I heard her comments during the 8:00 session
> Sunday morning.
> If the NFBC tried to pass a similar resolution I would oppose it just as
> MS Stibers did and for the very same reason.
> I do know one thing for a fact whenBob Acosta split the affiliate and we
> had our civil war mistreatment happened on all sidesnon chapter members
> confiscated things from chapters claiming to be the rightful owners before
> the courts ruled what belonged to who and even best of friends split
> company.In my opinion, people, normally civil nice people were terribley
> mean to each other on all sides even on the side that was right.
> I for example made tapes of the hearing when the national expelled
> BobAcosta and they had their big walk out and someone in the name of
> "borrowing the tapes" never returned them. BTW in that case it was a
> disident not a current member.
> That was one of the saddest days I've ever experienced personally.
> In factif we want to talk CCB history they have even betrayed one another
> by stealing money from chapters. I know for a fact the former Vacillia
> chapter was robbed by some of it's officers because my brother was it's
> former president.Maybe some currently dissolved NFBC chapters had similar
> problems I don't know.
> How's that for comoradari two brothers, two presidents of three chapters
> he of VacilliaCCB and me of Student division and San Fernando Valley,NFBC
> did wonders for family gatherings.
>
> I say that to say this I disagree with CCB and ACB in aproach but when the
> rights of any blind person are violated we shouldn't remain silent
> especially when we advertise ourselves as the voice of the nations blind.
> Oakland paratransit needs to know unequivocally that the blind though
> divided over many things won't be divided over this fact discrmination
> against any guide dog user is deplorable and unacceptable.
> No money no lawyers without request just a very strong resolution in
> opposition to Oakland paratransit.
> It should be distributed to the Oakland paratransit and to any government
> agency that has oversight and perhaps to the local and State media. We
> don't want Oakland Cab drivers to think we have a double standard or
> anyone else we work with to change what it means to be blind.
> MikePeterson
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Aziza" <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "Jim Canaday" <n6yr at sunflower.com>; "Kasey Servin"
> <s103113 at hotmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 2:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>
>
>> Peter,
>> I fully intend to read the histories of both organizations, and as a
>> local student leader in my community I am going to advise the students I
>> work with to read them as well. However, my point is that just because
>> things _have_ happened, doesn't mean they will. The past is just that,
>> the past. We have no right to speculate on what the ACB people will do in
>> the future, and they have no right to do the same to us. I stand firm in
>> my NFB beliefs, however, I am not against being objective enough to
>> understand that both the NFB and ACB have contributed to this growing
>> problem. Just because the ACB doesn't may have behaved badly doesn't mean
>> we should follow suit and not attempt to help, two wrongs do not make a
>> right afterall. All this nonsense about people, or other organizations
>> being unsupportive of the NFB is taking a serious toll on our
>> organization, and I wish it would all be laid to rest. Nowhere in our
>> constitutions does it state that we should only help those who vow
>> undying support to the NFB. Offering our help is not as big of a deal as
>> some would have us believe. Is it necessarily wrong for someone to offer
>> assistance when they think we need it by traveling? We have the right to
>> say no, and so does everyone else when presented an offer of assistance.
>> Aziza
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 2:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>
>>
>>> Good afternoon everyone,
>>>
>>> You don't know the ways of the ACB as those of us who have been
>>> around
>>> the organized blind do. They have their own guide dog user group. Let
>>> them
>>> get help from them. I'm not at all that enthused at bending over
>>> backward to
>>> help that crew only to have them attempt to destroy our exhibit booth at
>>> a
>>> local blindness fair. That's exactly what happened last year. I know
>>> because
>>> I saw it happen. We almost had them expelled from the exhibission hall.
>>> Several of our chapter members brought notetakers which were almost
>>> damaged
>>> by their behavior and subsequent actions.
>>>
>>> Before you comment any further read your history concerning the NFB
>>> and
>>> the ACB. While the incident is unfortunate we have better things to do
>>> with
>>> our funds than to spend it on those who through their organization would
>>> undermine our initiatives, attempt to destroy our property, and
>>> otherwise do
>>> all they can to create the kind of discrimination we're working hard to
>>> eliminate.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Aziza" <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 12:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>>
>>>
>>> Agreed.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Darian Smith" <dsmithnfb at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 12:00 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>>
>>>
>>>> This situation is not only unfortunate an frustrating, but
>>>> absolutely out of line.
>>>> I have a few thoughts, if I may:
>>>> 1. a very frustrating thing is it seems as if Law enforcement knows
>>>> not it's responsibility to enforce all of the laws it must. It
>>>> almost seems as if Police officers and the like have no
>>>> understanding of the ADA and/or how to operate around individuals
>>>> with disabilities.
>>>>
>>>> 2. in addition to the information given, would it not be wise to
>>>> include Shannon Dillon's contact information- as she is the current
>>>> president of cagdu-- the state where this all took place is in
>>>> california, after all.
>>>> Also, what's the harm in having either Mary willows/ Chuck
>>>> Krugman, or both contact these individuals as needed?
>>>> somehow, I'm thinking it does not matter if they were members of
>>>> ACB, NFV or PETA; the main thing is that these indivviduals should be
>>>> made aware that not only do they have resources, but actual people-
>>>> people in state that can support them should they need it.
>>>> Please forgive my corniness, but these people are blind people
>>>> like you and I, they have been treated unfairly and unjustly by
>>>> so-called professionals that are supposed to provide the highest
>>>> quility of service and they've far from done this. We in the NFB
>>>> want first- class citizanship for all blind people and if we truly
>>>> want this, there is little doubt in my mind that we should be ready
>>>> and willing to step in as needed.
>>>> just my thoughts,
>>>> Darian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/8/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I think by supplying the information we have provided, both in
>>>>> resources
>>>>> and
>>>>> oppinion, the people involved will probably make the right decision as
>>>>> to
>>>>> wehter or not they should go forward in this issue. I believe that at
>>>>> the
>>>>> moment the affiliation does not matter, what matters is that we have
>>>>> done
>>>>> what we can at the moment to provide the information necessary to move
>>>>> forward if they wish to do so. It is up to the parties involved to ask
>>>>> for
>>>>> further assistance if they find it necessary to do so.
>>>>> Aziza
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>>>>> To: <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 5:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Given the affiliation of the aggrieved parties, perhaps it would be
>>>>>> wise
>>>>>> to ascertain if they wish assistance in putting their case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike Freeman
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: unknown <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>> To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Date: Monday, Feb 8, 2010 17:15:29
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The appropriate things to do regarding this matter are as follows:
>>>>>>> 1. If the City of Oakland has an ADA coordinator file an official
>>>>>>> complaint
>>>>>>> with the City as if this is a paratransit company under contract
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> city to provide paratransit services they are responsible. for
>>>>>>> implementation of service and a need to insure that staff are
>>>>>>> appropriately
>>>>>>> trained. 2. Officially file a complaint with U.S. Department of
>>>>>>> Justice
>>>>>>> as a
>>>>>>> definite ADA violation occurred. The procedures for filing such a
>>>>>>> complaint
>>>>>>> are available at www.ada.gov.
>>>>>>> While it is important to make people aware of what happened change
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>> occur if official documentation in the form of ADA complaints are
>>>>>>> filed.
>>>>>>> For
>>>>>>> the record I am not aware of any circumstances where a public
>>>>>>> transit
>>>>>>> driver
>>>>>>> can refuse to transport a properly identified service animal. Not
>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> this clearly a violation of the ADA it is also a violation of
>>>>>>> California
>>>>>>> law
>>>>>>> as well. If needed I can research and furnish the appropriate
>>>>>>> citation.
>>>>>>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>>>>> President, NFB Central Valley Chapter
>>>>>>> 1237 P Street
>>>>>>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>>>>> 559-266-9237
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Anne Ward" <inland2wards at att.net>
>>>>>>> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;@smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com;>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:29 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > This was sent to me this morning by Judith Lesner, who asked me to
>>>>>>> > distribute it widely.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Anne Ward
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Discrimination in Oakland?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Last night my very good friend Marvelena Quesada was told that she
>>>>>>> > had
>>>>>>> > to
>>>>>>> > "sit in the back of the bus". In this case, an East Bay
>>>>>>> > ParaTransit
>>>>>>> > bus.
>>>>>>> > The person givithng the order was the bus's dispatcher.
>>>>>>> > Marvelena's
>>>>>>> > status that led up to the banishment to the back of the bus was
>>>>>>> > her
>>>>>>> > traveling with Darla. Marvelena is blind and Darla is her seeing
>>>>>>> > eye
>>>>>>> > dog.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > To start at the beginning, Marvelena and her husband Chris Gray
>>>>>>> > came
>>>>>>> > to
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > my
>>>>>>> > house for dinner. They are both blind and Chris is the past
>>>>>>> > president
>>>>>>> > of
>>>>>>> > the American Council of the Blind which is a national consumer
>>>>>>> > group.
>>>>>>> > They had arranged to be picked up by East Bay ParaTransit for a
>>>>>>> > ride
>>>>>>> > home.
>>>>>>> > At about 9:15 they got a call that their ride was outside. I
>>>>>>> > walked
>>>>>>> > out
>>>>>>> > with them to bus number 352. The driver asked if the dog was
>>>>>>> > going
>>>>>>> > along
>>>>>>> > too. Marvelena replied that it was. The driver then decided that
>>>>>>> > her
>>>>>>> > bus
>>>>>>> > was not positioned correctly and drove about a half block down the
>>>>>>> > street.
>>>>>>> > By the time we got to her she was on her cell phone and refused
>>>>>>> > entry
>>>>>>> > to
>>>>>>> > Chris and Marvelena, yelling at them through the partially opened
>>>>>>> > door
>>>>>>> > that no one had said anything about a dog and that she had
>>>>>>> > "issues"
>>>>>>> > with
>>>>>>> > dogs. She said they had to wait for another paratransit bus to
>>>>>>> > come
>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>> > take them. Chris said that they had a legal right to get on the
>>>>>>> > bus
>>>>>>> > with
>>>>>>> > the dog and forced his way through the partially opened door and
>>>>>>> > got
>>>>>>> > on
>>>>>>> > the bus. The driver slammed the door and wouldn't let Marvelena
>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>> > Darla
>>>>>>> > on the bus.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Meanwhile the driver was speaking to her dispatcher on a speaker
>>>>>>> > phone.
>>>>>>> > That was when the dispatcher made her Solomon like decision to end
>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>> > impasse, "Go take the dog and sit in the back of the bus". I
>>>>>>> > informed
>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>> > driver and dispatcher that it was no longer the 50's where they
>>>>>>> > could
>>>>>>> > get
>>>>>>> > away with that. Chris and Marvelena said that she would not move
>>>>>>> > to
>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>> > back. While this was going on, Marvelena and Darla managed to get
>>>>>>> > on
>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>> > bus. Marvelena was calling paratransit and she and I and another
>>>>>>> > friend
>>>>>>> > were conferring through the open door. At that point the
>>>>>>> > passenger
>>>>>>> > on
>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>> > bus said that she had had it with waiting so long and would walk
>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>> > rest
>>>>>>> > of the way home. She got off the bus and left. The driver
>>>>>>> > reported
>>>>>>> > that
>>>>>>> > the passenger had left the bus because of the dog which was a
>>>>>>> > baldfaced
>>>>>>> > lie. The driver then said that the company was sending another
>>>>>>> > bus
>>>>>>> > to
>>>>>>> > take them home.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > This all went on for some time when the driver closed the doors so
>>>>>>> > that
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > we
>>>>>>> > could no longer talk to Chris and Marvelena, turned out the lights
>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>> > left the bus. Marvelena and Chris were left alone in a locked bus
>>>>>>> > while
>>>>>>> > the driver walked half a block away and spoke on her cell phone.
>>>>>>> > Chris
>>>>>>> > then called 911 and two Oakland policemen arrived shortly there
>>>>>>> > after.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > One of the police asked my friend and I what was happening. I
>>>>>>> > explained
>>>>>>> > the situation. The policeman said something to the effect that it
>>>>>>> > depended on the bus company's policy. I said that was nonsense.
>>>>>>> > That
>>>>>>> > it
>>>>>>> > had nothing to do with the bus company, it was a federal law
>>>>>>> > called
>>>>>>> > the
>>>>>>> > ADA. Marvelena and her dog had the same right of access to public
>>>>>>> > places
>>>>>>> > as Marvelena did on her own. He seemed unaware of the law.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Finally, after the police arrived, another bus arrived to take
>>>>>>> > them
>>>>>>> > home.
>>>>>>> > The altercation took about an hour and involved the waste of two
>>>>>>> > bus
>>>>>>> > drivers' time as well as that of two Oakland police personnel.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Questions that arise:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 1.. Why when so many people with disabilities are using service
>>>>>>> > animals
>>>>>>> > does a company whose sole clientele are people with disabilities
>>>>>>> > hire
>>>>>>> > a
>>>>>>> > driver who will not drive a bus with a dog on it?
>>>>>>> > 2.. If the company feels compelled to hire folks who are afraid
>>>>>>> > of
>>>>>>> > dogs,
>>>>>>> > why do they not routinely ask passengers if they are traveling
>>>>>>> > with
>>>>>>> > service animals so that they can send a not-afraid driver?
>>>>>>> > 3.. Why were the driver and the dispatcher not trained by the
>>>>>>> > company
>>>>>>> > to
>>>>>>> > know the laws about access and seeing eye dogs?
>>>>>>> > 4.. Why was the driver not trained in basic courtesy? She
>>>>>>> > routinely
>>>>>>> > yelled at us, slammed doors and at one point told me to "move
>>>>>>> > him."
>>>>>>> > She
>>>>>>> > was referring to Chris. I explained that he was a person and he
>>>>>>> > moved
>>>>>>> > himself, I did not move him.
>>>>>>> > 5.. Why are the Oakland Police not trained in the fundamentals of
>>>>>>> > ADA
>>>>>>> > access laws?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Issues to note:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 1.. Darla was wearing a regulation Seeing Eye harness, did not
>>>>>>> > make
>>>>>>> > any
>>>>>>> > noise, did not show any aggression despite the shouting of the
>>>>>>> > driver
>>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>> > lay on the floor of the bus near Marvelena's feet the entire time.
>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> > Nfbc-info mailing list
>>>>>>> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> > for
>>>>>>> > Nfbc-info:
>>>>>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Nfbc-info mailing list
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>>>>> Nfbc-info:
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Darian Smith
>>>> Skype: The_Blind_Truth
>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>>> help! To Get Involved go to:
>>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>>>>
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