[Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland

ckrugman at sbcglobal.net ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
Wed Feb 10 05:29:20 UTC 2010


Aziza, you make valid points about mending the rift between the two 
organizations. When CCB held their 75th anniversary convention here in 
Fresno in October I attended as a guest making my involvement as the local 
chapter president of the NFB chapter known to all. I was welcomed with open 
arms met many nice and interesting people and experienced no animosity 
whatsoever. While there are definite differences in the organizations I 
found many of the existing myths about CCB to be unfounded at the present 
time.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aziza" <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com>
To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland


> Mike,
> With all do respect, I believe it is unfair as to suggest the unlikeliness 
> of the ACB to come forward offering help to Mary, or any other NFB member 
> if the need arose. We don't know this for certain, and cases in the past 
> that may have turned out this way are just that, in the past. We have no 
> right to think of new ACB members the same way. Furthermore, the idea that 
> we will not willingly offer our services or support because we think is 
> unwanted or unneeded is furthering the rift between the two organizations. 
> Afterall, what is the worst the ACB can do, tell us no? I sincerely 
> believe the NFB has faced worse situations. It is high time both the ACB 
> and NFB stop making asumtions as to how the other organization will react, 
> those asumtions and how they are acted on are simply fueling the rift that 
> should have been repaired, or at least be considerably less than what it 
> is a long time ago.
> Aziza Cano
> California Association of Blind Students, First Vice-President
> Channel Islands Chapter, Secretary
> Young Energetic Students Supporting Independence, President
> www.yessinfb.org
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>
>
>> Darian:
>>
>> Chris is the immediate past President of ACB. He therefore (a) knows NFB 
>> and NFBC are here and (b) presumably has the full faith, backing and 
>> resources of ACB to assist him to seek resolution of the incident. 
>> Moreover, Mitch Pomerantz, current ACB President, lives in your fair 
>> state. You can bet your booties that he is aware of the situation.
>>
>> I am not saying NFB and NFBC shouldn't help. All I am saying is that we 
>> should let Chris et al come to us. If he wishes our help, we will gladly 
>> give it. But, given politics, I see little reason to tread where we are 
>> presumably not needed or wanted.
>>
>> Let me put it another way: were Mary to face discrimination as a teacher, 
>> how likely do you think it would be for ACB to call her up offering to 
>> help or, for that matter, for her to accept such help?
>>
>> As I say, I'm not saying we shouldn't help. All I am saying is that we 
>> should do Chris et al the courtesy of allowing them to choose whom they 
>> would have advocate for them.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com>
>> To: NFB of California List <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Tuesday, Feb 9, 2010 0:13:05
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This situation is not only unfortunate an frustrating, but
>>> absolutely out of line.
>>>  I have   a few thoughts, if I may:
>>>  1.   a very frustrating thing is it seems as if Law enforcement knows
>>> not it's  responsibility to  enforce all of the laws it must.  It
>>> almost seems as if  Police officers and the like have  no
>>> understanding of the ADA  and/or how to  operate around individuals
>>> with disabilities.
>>>
>>>  2. in  addition to  the information given,  would it  not be wise to
>>> include Shannon Dillon's contact information- as she is  the current
>>> president of cagdu-- the state where  this all  took place is  in
>>> california, after all.
>>>   Also,  what's the harm in having  either Mary  willows/ Chuck
>>> Krugman, or  both  contact these individuals as needed?
>>>  somehow, I'm thinking  it does not matter if  they were members of
>>> ACB, NFV or  PETA; the main thing is that these indivviduals should be
>>>  made aware that  not only do they have  resources, but actual people-
>>> people in state that can support them should they need it.
>>>   Please forgive my corniness, but  these people are  blind people
>>> like you and I,  they have been treated unfairly and unjustly by
>>> so-called professionals that are supposed to  provide the highest
>>> quility of service and they've far from done this.   We in the NFB
>>> want  first- class citizanship for all blind people and if we truly
>>> want this,  there  is little doubt in my mind that  we should be ready
>>> and willing to  step in as needed.
>>>    just my thoughts,
>>>   Darian
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/8/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > I think by supplying the information we have provided, both in 
>>> > resources and
>>> > oppinion, the people involved will probably make the right decision as 
>>> > to
>>> > wehter or not they should go forward in this issue. I believe that at 
>>> > the
>>> > moment the affiliation does not matter, what matters is that we have 
>>> > done
>>> > what we can at the moment to provide the information necessary to move
>>> > forward if they wish to do so. It is up to the parties involved to ask 
>>> > for
>>> > further assistance if they find it necessary to do so.
>>> > Aziza
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>>> > To: <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>>> > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 5:42 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >ar Given the affiliation of the aggrieved parties, perhaps it would be 
>>> >wise
>>> >ar to ascertain if they wish assistance in putting their case.
>>> >ar
>>> >ar Mike Freeman
>>> >ar
>>> >ar ----- Original Message -----
>>> >ar From: unknown <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>>> >ar To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>>> >ar Date: Monday, Feb 8, 2010 17:15:29
>>> >ar Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>> >ar
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The appropriate things to do regarding this matter are as follows:
>>> >>> 1. If the City of Oakland has an ADA coordinator file an official
>>> >>> complaint
>>> >>> with the City as if this is a paratransit company under contract 
>>> >>> with the
>>> >>> city to provide paratransit services they are responsible. for
>>> >>> implementation of service and a need to insure that staff are
>>> >>> appropriately
>>> >>> trained. 2. Officially file a complaint with U.S. Department of 
>>> >>> Justice
>>> >>> as a
>>> >>> definite ADA violation occurred. The procedures for filing such a
>>> >>> complaint
>>> >>> are available at www.ada.gov.
>>> >>> While it is important to make people aware of what happened change 
>>> >>> can
>>> >>> only
>>> >>> occur if official documentation in the form of ADA complaints are 
>>> >>> filed.
>>> >>> For
>>> >>> the record I am not aware of any circumstances where a public 
>>> >>> transit
>>> >>> driver
>>> >>> can refuse to transport a properly identified service animal. Not 
>>> >>> only is
>>> >>> this clearly a violation of the ADA it is also a violation of 
>>> >>> California
>>> >>> law
>>> >>> as well. If needed I can research and furnish the appropriate 
>>> >>> citation.
>>> >>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>> >>> President, NFB Central Valley Chapter
>>> >>> 1237 P Street
>>> >>> Fresno ca 93721
>>> >>> 559-266-9237
>>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >>> From: "Anne Ward" <inland2wards at att.net>
>>> >>> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;@smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com;>
>>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:29 PM
>>> >>> Subject: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> > This was sent to me this morning by Judith Lesner, who asked me to
>>> >>> > distribute it widely.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Anne Ward
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Discrimination in Oakland?
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Last night my very good friend Marvelena Quesada was told that she 
>>> >>> > had
>>> >>> > to
>>> >>> > "sit in the back of the bus".  In this case, an East Bay 
>>> >>> > ParaTransit
>>> >>> > bus.
>>> >>> > The person givithng the order was the bus's dispatcher. 
>>> >>> > Marvelena's
>>> >>> > status that led up to the banishment to the back of the bus was 
>>> >>> > her
>>> >>> > traveling with Darla.  Marvelena is blind and Darla is her seeing 
>>> >>> > eye
>>> >>> > dog.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > To start at the beginning, Marvelena and her husband Chris Gray 
>>> >>> > came to
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > my
>>> >>> > house for dinner.  They are both blind and Chris is the past 
>>> >>> > president
>>> >>> > of
>>> >>> > the American Council of the Blind which is a national consumer 
>>> >>> > group.
>>> >>> > They had arranged to be picked up by East Bay ParaTransit for a 
>>> >>> > ride
>>> >>> > home.
>>> >>> > At about 9:15 they got a call that their ride was outside.  I 
>>> >>> > walked
>>> >>> > out
>>> >>> > with them to bus number 352.  The driver asked if the dog was 
>>> >>> > going
>>> >>> > along
>>> >>> > too.  Marvelena replied that it was.  The driver then decided that 
>>> >>> > her
>>> >>> > bus
>>> >>> > was not positioned correctly and drove about a half block down the
>>> >>> > street.
>>> >>> > By the time we got to her she was on her cell phone and refused 
>>> >>> > entry
>>> >>> > to
>>> >>> > Chris and Marvelena, yelling at them through the partially opened 
>>> >>> > door
>>> >>> > that no one had said anything about a dog and that she had 
>>> >>> > "issues"
>>> >>> > with
>>> >>> > dogs.  She said they had to wait for another paratransit  bus to 
>>> >>> > come
>>> >>> > and
>>> >>> > take them.  Chris said that they had a legal right to get on the 
>>> >>> > bus
>>> >>> > with
>>> >>> > the dog and forced his way through the partially opened door and 
>>> >>> > got on
>>> >>> > the bus.  The driver slammed the door and wouldn't let Marvelena 
>>> >>> > and
>>> >>> > Darla
>>> >>> > on the bus.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Meanwhile the driver was speaking to her dispatcher on a speaker 
>>> >>> > phone.
>>> >>> > That was when the dispatcher made her Solomon like decision to end 
>>> >>> > the
>>> >>> > impasse, "Go take the dog and sit in the back of the bus".  I 
>>> >>> > informed
>>> >>> > the
>>> >>> > driver and dispatcher that it was no longer the 50's where they 
>>> >>> > could
>>> >>> > get
>>> >>> > away with that.  Chris and Marvelena said that she would not move 
>>> >>> > to
>>> >>> > the
>>> >>> > back.  While this was going on, Marvelena and Darla managed to get 
>>> >>> > on
>>> >>> > the
>>> >>> > bus.  Marvelena was calling paratransit and she and I and another
>>> >>> > friend
>>> >>> > were conferring through the open door.  At that point the 
>>> >>> > passenger on
>>> >>> > the
>>> >>> > bus said that she had had it with waiting so long and would walk 
>>> >>> > the
>>> >>> > rest
>>> >>> > of the way home.  She got off the bus and left.  The driver 
>>> >>> > reported
>>> >>> > that
>>> >>> > the passenger had left the bus because of the dog which was a 
>>> >>> > baldfaced
>>> >>> > lie.  The driver then said that the company was sending another 
>>> >>> > bus to
>>> >>> > take them home.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > This all went on for some time when the driver closed the doors so 
>>> >>> > that
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > we
>>> >>> > could no longer talk to Chris and Marvelena, turned out the lights 
>>> >>> > and
>>> >>> > left the bus.  Marvelena and Chris were left alone in a locked bus
>>> >>> > while
>>> >>> > the driver walked half a block away and spoke on her cell phone. 
>>> >>> > Chris
>>> >>> > then called 911 and two Oakland policemen arrived shortly there 
>>> >>> > after.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > One of the police asked my friend and I what was happening.  I
>>> >>> > explained
>>> >>> > the situation.  The policeman said something to the effect that it
>>> >>> > depended on the bus company's policy.  I said that was nonsense. 
>>> >>> > That
>>> >>> > it
>>> >>> > had nothing to do with the bus company, it was a federal law 
>>> >>> > called the
>>> >>> > ADA.  Marvelena and her dog had the same right of access to public
>>> >>> > places
>>> >>> > as Marvelena did on her own.  He seemed unaware of the law.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Finally, after the police arrived, another bus arrived to take 
>>> >>> > them
>>> >>> > home.
>>> >>> > The altercation took about an hour and involved the waste of two 
>>> >>> > bus
>>> >>> > drivers' time as well as that of two Oakland police personnel.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Questions that arise:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >  1.. Why when so many people with disabilities are using service
>>> >>> > animals
>>> >>> > does a company whose sole clientele are people with disabilities 
>>> >>> > hire a
>>> >>> > driver who will not drive a bus with a dog on it?
>>> >>> >  2.. If the company feels compelled to hire folks who are afraid 
>>> >>> > of
>>> >>> > dogs,
>>> >>> > why do they not routinely ask passengers if they are traveling 
>>> >>> > with
>>> >>> > service animals so that they can send a not-afraid driver?
>>> >>> >  3.. Why were the driver and the dispatcher not trained by the 
>>> >>> > company
>>> >>> > to
>>> >>> > know the laws about access and seeing eye dogs?
>>> >>> >  4.. Why was the driver not trained in basic courtesy?  She 
>>> >>> > routinely
>>> >>> > yelled at us, slammed doors and at one point told me to "move 
>>> >>> > him."
>>> >>> > She
>>> >>> > was referring to Chris.  I explained that he was a person and he 
>>> >>> > moved
>>> >>> > himself, I did not move him.
>>> >>> >  5.. Why are the Oakland Police not trained in the fundamentals of 
>>> >>> > ADA
>>> >>> > access laws?
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Issues to note:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >  1.. Darla was wearing a regulation Seeing Eye harness, did not 
>>> >>> > make
>>> >>> > any
>>> >>> > noise, did not show any aggression despite the shouting of the 
>>> >>> > driver
>>> >>> > and
>>> >>> > lay on the floor of the bus near Marvelena's feet the entire time.
>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >>> > Nfbc-info mailing list
>>> >>> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>>> >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> >>> > for
>>> >>> > Nfbc-info:
>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> Nfbc-info mailing list
>>> >>> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> >>> for
>>> >>> Nfbc-info:
>>> >>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>>> >ar
>>> >ar _______________________________________________
>>> >ar Nfbc-info mailing list
>>> >ar Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>>> >ar http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>>> >ar To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> >for
>>> >ar Nfbc-info:
>>> >ar 
>>> >http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com
>>> >ar
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Nfbc-info mailing list
>>> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > Nfbc-info:
>>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Darian Smith
>>> Skype: The_Bl_Truth
>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>> help!   To Get Involved  go to:
>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nfbc-info mailing list
>>> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> Nfbc-info:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/k7uij%40panix.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfbc-info mailing list
>> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> Nfbc-info:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/daydreamingncolor%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Nfbc-info:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net 





More information about the NFBC-Info mailing list