[Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
Aziza
daydreamingncolor at gmail.com
Thu Feb 11 04:49:03 UTC 2010
I think that's a step in the right direction, and am happy to hear that at
least that far is doable.
Thanks for the info.
Aziza
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
> Aziza:
>
> With respect, as long as ACB and NFB philosophy differ and their outlooks
> and expectations concerning blindness and the blind differ, it is, I
> believe, rather unlikely that the "rift", as you put it, will be healed.
>
> I think ACB and NFB *may* eventually get to a "live and let live" attitude
> as is largely the case here in Washington state; we cooperate where we can
> while accepting that we may differ on some things and may fight like cats
> and dogs over them. But we tend to stay out of each other's way. I think
> that's about as far as either organization can or wishes to go.
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Aziza" <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com>
> To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>
>
>> Mike,
>> With all do respect, I believe it is unfair as to suggest the
>> unlikeliness of the ACB to come forward offering help to Mary, or any
>> other NFB member if the need arose. We don't know this for certain, and
>> cases in the past that may have turned out this way are just that, in the
>> past. We have no right to think of new ACB members the same way.
>> Furthermore, the idea that we will not willingly offer our services or
>> support because we think is unwanted or unneeded is furthering the rift
>> between the two organizations. Afterall, what is the worst the ACB can
>> do, tell us no? I sincerely believe the NFB has faced worse situations.
>> It is high time both the ACB and NFB stop making asumtions as to how the
>> other organization will react, those asumtions and how they are acted on
>> are simply fueling the rift that should have been repaired, or at least
>> be considerably less than what it is a long time ago.
>> Aziza Cano
>> California Association of Blind Students, First Vice-President
>> Channel Islands Chapter, Secretary
>> Young Energetic Students Supporting Independence, President
>> www.yessinfb.org
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>> To: <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 3:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>
>>
>>> Darian:
>>>
>>> Chris is the immediate past President of ACB. He therefore (a) knows NFB
>>> and NFBC are here and (b) presumably has the full faith, backing and
>>> resources of ACB to assist him to seek resolution of the incident.
>>> Moreover, Mitch Pomerantz, current ACB President, lives in your fair
>>> state. You can bet your booties that he is aware of the situation.
>>>
>>> I am not saying NFB and NFBC shouldn't help. All I am saying is that we
>>> should let Chris et al come to us. If he wishes our help, we will gladly
>>> give it. But, given politics, I see little reason to tread where we are
>>> presumably not needed or wanted.
>>>
>>> Let me put it another way: were Mary to face discrimination as a
>>> teacher, how likely do you think it would be for ACB to call her up
>>> offering to help or, for that matter, for her to accept such help?
>>>
>>> As I say, I'm not saying we shouldn't help. All I am saying is that we
>>> should do Chris et al the courtesy of allowing them to choose whom they
>>> would have advocate for them.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com>
>>> To: NFB of California List <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>>> Date: Tuesday, Feb 9, 2010 0:13:05
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This situation is not only unfortunate an frustrating, but
>>>> absolutely out of line.
>>>> I have a few thoughts, if I may:
>>>> 1. a very frustrating thing is it seems as if Law enforcement knows
>>>> not it's responsibility to enforce all of the laws it must. It
>>>> almost seems as if Police officers and the like have no
>>>> understanding of the ADA and/or how to operate around individuals
>>>> with disabilities.
>>>>
>>>> 2. in addition to the information given, would it not be wise to
>>>> include Shannon Dillon's contact information- as she is the current
>>>> president of cagdu-- the state where this all took place is in
>>>> california, after all.
>>>> Also, what's the harm in having either Mary willows/ Chuck
>>>> Krugman, or both contact these individuals as needed?
>>>> somehow, I'm thinking it does not matter if they were members of
>>>> ACB, NFV or PETA; the main thing is that these indivviduals should be
>>>> made aware that not only do they have resources, but actual people-
>>>> people in state that can support them should they need it.
>>>> Please forgive my corniness, but these people are blind people
>>>> like you and I, they have been treated unfairly and unjustly by
>>>> so-called professionals that are supposed to provide the highest
>>>> quility of service and they've far from done this. We in the NFB
>>>> want first- class citizanship for all blind people and if we truly
>>>> want this, there is little doubt in my mind that we should be ready
>>>> and willing to step in as needed.
>>>> just my thoughts,
>>>> Darian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/8/10, Aziza <daydreamingncolor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > I think by supplying the information we have provided, both in
>>>> > resources and
>>>> > oppinion, the people involved will probably make the right decision
>>>> > as to
>>>> > wehter or not they should go forward in this issue. I believe that at
>>>> > the
>>>> > moment the affiliation does not matter, what matters is that we have
>>>> > done
>>>> > what we can at the moment to provide the information necessary to
>>>> > move
>>>> > forward if they wish to do so. It is up to the parties involved to
>>>> > ask for
>>>> > further assistance if they find it necessary to do so.
>>>> > Aziza
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
>>>> > To: <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>>>> > Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 5:42 PM
>>>> > Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >ar Given the affiliation of the aggrieved parties, perhaps it would be
>>>> >wise
>>>> >ar to ascertain if they wish assistance in putting their case.
>>>> >ar
>>>> >ar Mike Freeman
>>>> >ar
>>>> >ar ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >ar From: unknown <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> >ar To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>>>> >ar Date: Monday, Feb 8, 2010 17:15:29
>>>> >ar Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>>> >ar
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The appropriate things to do regarding this matter are as follows:
>>>> >>> 1. If the City of Oakland has an ADA coordinator file an official
>>>> >>> complaint
>>>> >>> with the City as if this is a paratransit company under contract
>>>> >>> with the
>>>> >>> city to provide paratransit services they are responsible. for
>>>> >>> implementation of service and a need to insure that staff are
>>>> >>> appropriately
>>>> >>> trained. 2. Officially file a complaint with U.S. Department of
>>>> >>> Justice
>>>> >>> as a
>>>> >>> definite ADA violation occurred. The procedures for filing such a
>>>> >>> complaint
>>>> >>> are available at www.ada.gov.
>>>> >>> While it is important to make people aware of what happened change
>>>> >>> can
>>>> >>> only
>>>> >>> occur if official documentation in the form of ADA complaints are
>>>> >>> filed.
>>>> >>> For
>>>> >>> the record I am not aware of any circumstances where a public
>>>> >>> transit
>>>> >>> driver
>>>> >>> can refuse to transport a properly identified service animal. Not
>>>> >>> only is
>>>> >>> this clearly a violation of the ADA it is also a violation of
>>>> >>> California
>>>> >>> law
>>>> >>> as well. If needed I can research and furnish the appropriate
>>>> >>> citation.
>>>> >>> Chuck Krugman, M.S.W., Paralegal
>>>> >>> President, NFB Central Valley Chapter
>>>> >>> 1237 P Street
>>>> >>> Fresno ca 93721
>>>> >>> 559-266-9237
>>>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >>> From: "Anne Ward" <inland2wards at att.net>
>>>> >>> To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;@smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com;>
>>>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 12:29 PM
>>>> >>> Subject: [Nfbc-info] Discrimination in Oakland
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> > This was sent to me this morning by Judith Lesner, who asked me
>>>> >>> > to
>>>> >>> > distribute it widely.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Anne Ward
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Discrimination in Oakland?
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Last night my very good friend Marvelena Quesada was told that
>>>> >>> > she had
>>>> >>> > to
>>>> >>> > "sit in the back of the bus". In this case, an East Bay
>>>> >>> > ParaTransit
>>>> >>> > bus.
>>>> >>> > The person givithng the order was the bus's dispatcher.
>>>> >>> > Marvelena's
>>>> >>> > status that led up to the banishment to the back of the bus was
>>>> >>> > her
>>>> >>> > traveling with Darla. Marvelena is blind and Darla is her seeing
>>>> >>> > eye
>>>> >>> > dog.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > To start at the beginning, Marvelena and her husband Chris Gray
>>>> >>> > came to
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > my
>>>> >>> > house for dinner. They are both blind and Chris is the past
>>>> >>> > president
>>>> >>> > of
>>>> >>> > the American Council of the Blind which is a national consumer
>>>> >>> > group.
>>>> >>> > They had arranged to be picked up by East Bay ParaTransit for a
>>>> >>> > ride
>>>> >>> > home.
>>>> >>> > At about 9:15 they got a call that their ride was outside. I
>>>> >>> > walked
>>>> >>> > out
>>>> >>> > with them to bus number 352. The driver asked if the dog was
>>>> >>> > going
>>>> >>> > along
>>>> >>> > too. Marvelena replied that it was. The driver then decided
>>>> >>> > that her
>>>> >>> > bus
>>>> >>> > was not positioned correctly and drove about a half block down
>>>> >>> > the
>>>> >>> > street.
>>>> >>> > By the time we got to her she was on her cell phone and refused
>>>> >>> > entry
>>>> >>> > to
>>>> >>> > Chris and Marvelena, yelling at them through the partially opened
>>>> >>> > door
>>>> >>> > that no one had said anything about a dog and that she had
>>>> >>> > "issues"
>>>> >>> > with
>>>> >>> > dogs. She said they had to wait for another paratransit bus to
>>>> >>> > come
>>>> >>> > and
>>>> >>> > take them. Chris said that they had a legal right to get on the
>>>> >>> > bus
>>>> >>> > with
>>>> >>> > the dog and forced his way through the partially opened door and
>>>> >>> > got on
>>>> >>> > the bus. The driver slammed the door and wouldn't let Marvelena
>>>> >>> > and
>>>> >>> > Darla
>>>> >>> > on the bus.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Meanwhile the driver was speaking to her dispatcher on a speaker
>>>> >>> > phone.
>>>> >>> > That was when the dispatcher made her Solomon like decision to
>>>> >>> > end the
>>>> >>> > impasse, "Go take the dog and sit in the back of the bus". I
>>>> >>> > informed
>>>> >>> > the
>>>> >>> > driver and dispatcher that it was no longer the 50's where they
>>>> >>> > could
>>>> >>> > get
>>>> >>> > away with that. Chris and Marvelena said that she would not move
>>>> >>> > to
>>>> >>> > the
>>>> >>> > back. While this was going on, Marvelena and Darla managed to
>>>> >>> > get on
>>>> >>> > the
>>>> >>> > bus. Marvelena was calling paratransit and she and I and another
>>>> >>> > friend
>>>> >>> > were conferring through the open door. At that point the
>>>> >>> > passenger on
>>>> >>> > the
>>>> >>> > bus said that she had had it with waiting so long and would walk
>>>> >>> > the
>>>> >>> > rest
>>>> >>> > of the way home. She got off the bus and left. The driver
>>>> >>> > reported
>>>> >>> > that
>>>> >>> > the passenger had left the bus because of the dog which was a
>>>> >>> > baldfaced
>>>> >>> > lie. The driver then said that the company was sending another
>>>> >>> > bus to
>>>> >>> > take them home.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > This all went on for some time when the driver closed the doors
>>>> >>> > so that
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > we
>>>> >>> > could no longer talk to Chris and Marvelena, turned out the
>>>> >>> > lights and
>>>> >>> > left the bus. Marvelena and Chris were left alone in a locked
>>>> >>> > bus
>>>> >>> > while
>>>> >>> > the driver walked half a block away and spoke on her cell phone.
>>>> >>> > Chris
>>>> >>> > then called 911 and two Oakland policemen arrived shortly there
>>>> >>> > after.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > One of the police asked my friend and I what was happening. I
>>>> >>> > explained
>>>> >>> > the situation. The policeman said something to the effect that
>>>> >>> > it
>>>> >>> > depended on the bus company's policy. I said that was nonsense.
>>>> >>> > That
>>>> >>> > it
>>>> >>> > had nothing to do with the bus company, it was a federal law
>>>> >>> > called the
>>>> >>> > ADA. Marvelena and her dog had the same right of access to
>>>> >>> > public
>>>> >>> > places
>>>> >>> > as Marvelena did on her own. He seemed unaware of the law.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Finally, after the police arrived, another bus arrived to take
>>>> >>> > them
>>>> >>> > home.
>>>> >>> > The altercation took about an hour and involved the waste of two
>>>> >>> > bus
>>>> >>> > drivers' time as well as that of two Oakland police personnel.
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Questions that arise:
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > 1.. Why when so many people with disabilities are using service
>>>> >>> > animals
>>>> >>> > does a company whose sole clientele are people with disabilities
>>>> >>> > hire a
>>>> >>> > driver who will not drive a bus with a dog on it?
>>>> >>> > 2.. If the company feels compelled to hire folks who are afraid
>>>> >>> > of
>>>> >>> > dogs,
>>>> >>> > why do they not routinely ask passengers if they are traveling
>>>> >>> > with
>>>> >>> > service animals so that they can send a not-afraid driver?
>>>> >>> > 3.. Why were the driver and the dispatcher not trained by the
>>>> >>> > company
>>>> >>> > to
>>>> >>> > know the laws about access and seeing eye dogs?
>>>> >>> > 4.. Why was the driver not trained in basic courtesy? She
>>>> >>> > routinely
>>>> >>> > yelled at us, slammed doors and at one point told me to "move
>>>> >>> > him."
>>>> >>> > She
>>>> >>> > was referring to Chris. I explained that he was a person and he
>>>> >>> > moved
>>>> >>> > himself, I did not move him.
>>>> >>> > 5.. Why are the Oakland Police not trained in the fundamentals
>>>> >>> > of ADA
>>>> >>> > access laws?
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > Issues to note:
>>>> >>> >
>>>> >>> > 1.. Darla was wearing a regulation Seeing Eye harness, did not
>>>> >>> > make
>>>> >>> > any
>>>> >>> > noise, did not show any aggression despite the shouting of the
>>>> >>> > driver
>>>> >>> > and
>>>> >>> > lay on the floor of the bus near Marvelena's feet the entire
>>>> >>> > time.
>>>> >>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >>> > Nfbc-info mailing list
>>>> >>> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>>>> >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> >>> > for
>>>> >>> > Nfbc-info:
>>>> >>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >ar
>>>> >ar _______________________________________________
>>>> >ar Nfbc-info mailing list
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>>>> >for
>>>> >ar Nfbc-info:
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>>>> >ar
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Darian Smith
>>>> Skype: The_Bl_Truth
>>>> Windows Live: Lightningrod2010 at live.com
>>>> The National Federation of the Blind has launched a nationwide teacher
>>>> recruitment campaign to help attract energetic and passionate
>>>> individuals into the field of blindness education, and we need your
>>>> help! To Get Involved go to:
>>>> www.TeachBlindStudents.org
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
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>
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