[Nfbc-info] problem solving about online job applications

[Clark, Ted A@DOT]

I have to respectfully disagree

if you get hired then you can be the one to ensure they meet the accessibility standards.

I know at my work I am the accessibility expert. Different units will send me their documents and webpages to make sure that they are accessible before they are sent live to the public.

If I came upon something that was not accessible I would let that division no. And also inform them that I would be glad to check their materials before it went live.

After that they would send me their materials in advance to ensure that they were accessible. Fortunately I was on the inside and able to work with them and let them know if their documents were in compliance. But it was because I was working with this company that I was able to make these changes. Everyone that I worked with has been quite receptive and thankful for my assistance.

If we are to make change we need to get involved. And not Monday morning quarterback.


Cc: Justin Harford
Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] problem solving about online job applications

I would not want a sighted friend to spend time helping me apply to an employer who clearly does not want me to apply. 

> On Mar 5, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Chela Robles via Nfbc-info <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Well said Chuck because I know when looking for a job there are bound to be some online job applications not screen reader friendly at all and I've had sighted people I know and fully trust to help me when it comes to for example drop down lists in which you must select a state and country and county and the app doesn't have a combo box, just an inaccessible drop down menu where JAWS can read the items but once you select them, it says for example California clickable doesn't even say whether or not it is selected, or worse, they will have a hash-tag symbol or a # and say it is a link but when clicking on it, it doesn't work in order to select the item in question.
> When in doubt see about scheduling a time to have sighted assistance or at least if you are able to do so, have someone remotely access your computer and have them help you that way as you are talking to them.
> 
> --
> You can live the life you want. your disability is not what holds you back. Use your disability to break down common barriers and misconceptions. You can do this!
> --
> Chela Robles
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>> On 3/5/2016 6:56 PM, Charles Krugman via Nfbc-info wrote:
>> Hi Lisa and all. I understand what you are trying to do here to bring about improvements in accessibility of on line applications for employment. While I haven't experienced this with an on line application there have been a couple of times I have experienced accessibility or confusion when purchasing a product or registering on a site. As I was concerned about spending as little time possible dealing with the issue I resorted on one occasion to having a sighted person who I knew complete a purchase to join an organization as there was an accessibility issue. This involved giving him my information and having him complete the process for me using his computer. Some times the most expedient way is to revert to sighted help to complete a task in a timely manner and save the problem solving for after the immediate situation is resolved.
>> Chuck
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Lisa Irving via Nfbc-info
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2016 1:44 PM
>> To: 'NFB of California List'
>> Cc: Lisa Irving
>> Subject: [Nfbc-info] problem solving about online job applications
>> 
>> Hello Federation Family,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I would like to begin a discussion about problem solving at multiple 
>> levels when it comes to web access barriers and online job 
>> applications. I will now share why I am writing this message. 
>> Basically, I encountered a semi accessible online job application. 
>> Now, I'll try to succinctly describe my efforts to problem solve and 
>> some of those results. Finally, I will open a secondary discussion 
>> about what can we do collectively to change things within the State of California.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To begin with, an acquaintance urged me to apply for a position where 
>> he works. The agency is in essence a satellite office. It's 
>> headquarters are out of state. Uploading my tailored resume wasn't a 
>> problem, however, the organization's online job application is not 
>> tagged in various areas and parts of it could be laid out 
>> differently. When I discovered that current online form wouldn't 
>> interface with JAWS I tried another approach. I pressed my nose to 
>> the screen using a magnifier and managed, after six hours, to 
>> complete probably 3/4ths of the form, however, all of that work went into cyber space. There's more to this story.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Over the past three days I contacted a couple of sighted friends to 
>> see if they could help me; they can't, at least not now. I sent a 
>> short email to the person who encouraged me to apply for the 
>> position. This person had good intentions when he sent my message to 
>> headquarters. Someone from headquarters sent me an email. She 
>> forwarded my resume to the Hiring Manager; a free pass to the head of 
>> the line that I would prefer not to have. I asked Sweetman Systems to 
>> go online with me to look at the form; they did. They agree that 
>> there's room for improvement. I contacted  Mike Hingson and followed 
>> through with his suggestions to contact local agencies providing services to blind persons; I did. Here's where I'm at.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I'm working with my DOR counselor. There's additional lag time, in 
>> part, because her office isn't in the area. I left a message for the 
>> Director of Client Services at the local Center for the Blind and I 
>> contacted the local Braille Institute Volunteer Coordinator. The 
>> volunteer coordinator brought up some points I had not thought about. 
>> Her volunteers cannot help blind clients with paperwork which requires disclosure of personal information.
>> This is to protect both individuals. Additionally, she worried that 
>> her volunteers would be liable if they made an error on the 
>> application. She made some suggestions that weren't particular useful 
>> for me. I was invited to use screen magnification equipment and she 
>> suggested that I work with their technology instructor. The last 
>> suggestion would have been great had I not already worked with highly 
>> qualified adaptive technology trainers. For now, I'm stuck at pretty 
>> near square one. This brings me to the last part of my message.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I think it's safe to say that most of us want to drastically reduce 
>> the rate of unemployment for blind individuals. I think it's also 
>> safe to say that some of us would agree that even with the Department 
>> of Rehabilitation's addition of team case management and designated 
>> job developers the system is substantially flawed. I ask the question that some of you may be asking.
>> Collectively, what can the NFBC do to evoke change; preferably, to 
>> completely separate DOR services for the blind and visually impaired 
>> from other DOR services. Also, what can we collectively do to create 
>> employer incentives to make online environments universally 
>> inclusive? It goes without saying, none of this happens overnight. 
>> But, things need to change and I would like to see the affiliate act 
>> on Brian Bashan's resolution which was adopted two years ago. Your thoughts and suggestions?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Warmly,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Lisa Irving
>> 
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