[Nfbc-info] Nfbc-info Digest, Vol 130, Issue 29
Clark, Ted A@DOT
ted.clark at dot.ca.gov
Wed Mar 30 22:09:19 UTC 2016
Good afternoon
I would like to make people aware of one other thing regarding paratransit. In elk GroveM V runs are paratransit.
There was a new ADA circular that came out in late 2015 and it states that paratransit is prohibited from creating a waiting list for rides.
Ted Clark
EEO/Disability Analyst
Equal Employment Opportunity Program (EEOP)
1820 Alhambra Blvd, MS 92
Sacramento, CA 95816
Office (916) 227-7518,
Fax (916) 227-5199
TTY 711
-----Original Message-----
From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Russak via Nfbc-info
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 2:32 PM
To: nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
Cc: Dennis Russak
Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Nfbc-info Digest, Vol 130, Issue 29
I'd like to publicly compliment State President Mary Willows on her comments insofar as Paratransit is concerned.
First of all, though, I'm not sure of all the rules and regulations regarding Paratransit here in Sacramento, since I do not use it. I strongly believe not only Mary's, but also the National Federation of the Blind way, which says that if Blind people can use fixed-route Transit, such as bus, light rail, subway, for example, they shouldn't need to use Paratransit. Trouble is, if you live a long, long walk from your nearest bus or other mass transit boarding area or stop, you sometimes may just have to. I also include those who may be able to use fixed-route, but may not always have the physical stamena to walk these sometimes long, long distances to their fixed-route transit pickup.
Finally, as far as rules are concerned, I think Sacramento still has a one-hour window insofar as pickup is concerned. Also, not only does it cost $5 to ride this service, one of if not the highest in the United States. but as of July 1st, 2016, the fare is going up to $5.50, a 10 percent increase, which was originally supposed to go up to 20 percent.
I haven't heard Mary's argument about Paratransit vs. Fixed-route in a long time. It is refreshing to hear this spoken again. Good job, Mary!
----- Original Message -----
From: nfbc-info-request at nfbnet.org
To: nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2016 5:01 am
Subject: Nfbc-info Digest, Vol 130, Issue 29
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Paratransit regulations (Mary Willows)
> 2. Re: Paratransit regulations (Brian Buhrow)
> 3. Re: Paratransit regulations (Michael Hingson)
> 4. Re: Paratransit regulations (Brian Buhrow)
> 5. Re: Paratransit regulations (Michael Hingson)
> 6. Re: Paratransit regulations (Lisa Irving)
> 7. Re: Paratransit regulations (Lisa Irving)
> 8. California court grants judgment for blind plaintiff in web
> accessibility case (Charles Krugman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 15:22:05 com0700
> From: "Mary Willows" <mwillows at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'Ationfb of California List'" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> Message-ID: <009201d18a09$6e5de100$4b19a300$@sbcglobal.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=by us-ascii"
>
> I believe all the ADA says is that alternative transportation must be
> offered during the same time the fixed route buses are running. The
> Department of Transportation oversees the ADA regulations but your
> local bus company contracts with a third party to offer para transit
> services. So DOT says there must be an alternative service and then
> the Livermore Amidor Valley Transit Authority contracts with MV to
> provide that service. In fact, technically, blind people should not
> be using para transit at all. So if they are allowing you on the bus,
> be greatful. Our contract says that you cannot live within 2 blocks
> of a fixed route bus stop. Blindness is not really a reason to be
> picked up door to door. Para transit was intended for wheelchair
> people and other severe disabilities. If you are just blind and your
> legs work to walk and you have the cognative ability to get on a bus and pay your way, you are really not supposed to be using para transit.
> This is a perfect example of where you have to decide if you are
> vanilla or chocolate. You can't have it both ways. That is to say,
> wanting preferential treatment on the one hand and then wanting to be
> viewed as an independent disabled adult on the other hand.
>
> This ought to spark some lively discussion. Don't you think?
> This is the perfect time for the San Diego Chapter members to try and
> get on the advisory committee for your transit system. Ask Dennis
> Russak. He knows all about the ADA service in Sacramento. He is Mr. Transportation.
> Jim served on our local para transit advisory committee for many, many
> years. The really funny thing is that the members were quite often
> late for the meeting because they relied on para transit to get them
> there. It was perfect. Management saw first hand how inefficient the service was.
>
> It would be very interesting to see what the listers say about this topic.
> It's a button pusher.
>
> comMary Willows
> The National Federation of the blind knows that blindness is not the
> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> the expectations of blind people because low expectations create
> obstacles between blind people and our dreams.
> You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
>
> National Federation of the Blind of California (NFBC)
> 3934 Kern Court
> Pleasanton, CA 94588
> 925-462-8575
>
> Thank you,
> Mary Willows, President NFBC
> mwillows at sbcglobal.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Clark, Ted A at DOT via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 8:59 AM
> To: NFB of California List
> Cc: Clark, Ted A at DOT
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> It is my understanding that it will vary from location to location on
> the window time. And as far as I am aware there are no penalties
> against paratransit if they are not with inside the window.
> Contact your local paratransit and ask them to see if they have a
> guide spelling out the commuters rights
>
>
>
> Ted Clark
> EEO/Disability Analyst
> Equal Employment Opportunity Program (EEOP)
> 1820 Alhambra Blvd, MS 92
> Sacramento, CA 95816
> Office (916) 227-7518,
> Fax (916) 227-5199
> TTY 711
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Lisa Irving via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 5:46 PM
> To: NFB of California List
> Cc: Lisa Irving
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> I would like to direct this topic to Mike Tim Ted and all other
> knowledgeable individuals who might sit on committees or work with
> entities overseeing Paratransit. As you can see from Mary's response
> and for my information there a different standards for for Paratransit
> providers that is, there seems to be no consistency with the allowed
> window or actual consequences to the Paratransit provider. On one
> hand, according to Mary, her paratransit service provider gives a free
> ride if the driver is outside of his or her window. On the other hand,
> down here in San Diego no free rides are given unless the driver is an
> hour late. Go figure they have a 20 minute window but there appear to
> be no consequences until the drivers an hour late where is there the incentive to be on time?
>
> I'm prior occasions I have read some of the Paratransit regulations
> that is why I'm asking folks on the listserv about the regulations
> because they are not crystal-clear and there appeared to be different
> standards from provider to provider. What does California law say? The
> 88 appears to be somewhat ambiguous to perhaps I'm mistaken
>
> On a similar thread, at what point or Paratransit providers
> discriminating against the general population of Paratransit users
> when the bulk of subscription rides are assigned to one specific
> population within the disability community?
>
> Respectfully,
> Lisa Irving
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Mary Willows via Nfbc-info
> <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > You can google the regulations for your service. Each one is a
> > little different. Up here (Tri Valley) it is 15 minutes either side
> > of your pick up time. If they miss that half hour your next ride is free.
> > However, East Bay para transit does not offer that.
> > MW
> >
> > The National Federation of the blind knows that blindness is not the
> > characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> > the expectations of blind people because low expectations create
> > obstacles between blind people and our dreams.
> > You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
> >
> > National Federation of the Blind of California (NFBC)
> > 3934 Kern Court
> > Pleasanton, CA 94588
> > 925-462-8575
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Mary Willows, President NFBC
> > mwillows at sbcglobal.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > Lisa Irving via Nfbc-info
> > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 7:44 AM
> > To: NFB LIST SERVE
> > Cc: Lisa Irving
> > Subject: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> >
> > I have a question about Paratransit regulations. At what point are
> > there consequences for Paratransit providers when they are outside
> > of their window? San Diego Paratransit has a 20 minute window.
> >
> > Best,
> > Lisa Irving
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nfbc-info mailing list
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> >
> >
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> > 89
> > %40cox.net
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 16:40:59 com0700
> From: Brian Buhrow <buhrow at nfbcal.org>
> To: NFB of California List <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Mary Willows <mwillows at sbcglobal.net>, buhrow at nfbcal.org
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> Message-ID: <201603292340.u2TNex8x018044 at lothlorien.nfbcal.org>
>
> Hello. Mary's right. this is a real button pusher. And, I'm on the
> fence about whether blind folks should be using para transit. I
> think, "it depends". In Los Angeles, and, I imagine, San Diego, the
> challenge for using fixed route service is the distance between where
> you are, home, and where you want to be. With fixed route service,
> you typically have to get on a bus, go to a spot, get off, wait for
> another bus, go to another spot, get off, wait for another bus, get
> off and walk to your destination. Each bus transition, in my
> experience, adds about an hour to your commute. In LA and San Diego
> Counties, where the counties are large, there is a huge efficiency to
> be gained by stepping into a para transit car and being driven
> directly, more or less, to your desired destination. As an example,
> if I wanted to travel from my home in Los Angeles in the South Bay, to
> my friends in Northridge, if I took fixed route transit, the one-way
> commute would take 3 hours. If I took para transit, the commute would
> take between
> 40 minutes and 1.5 hours, depending on traffic and how many other
> stops there were to be made. With a round trip time of 6 hours on
> fixed route transit, I'd be hard pressed to argue that a blind user
> should be forced to use para transit.
>
> For blind folks with jobs, I'd argue that as much as possible, they
> should use cabs, Uber or some other form of private transportation if
> possible to get to work. As Mary stated, Para transit is notoriously
> unpredictable and you don't want to lose your job because the para
> transit driver got lost, was late or otherwise failed to deliver you
> to yor work in a timely manner. In some cases, you may have to move
> to accommodate your job so as to minimize the commute.
>
> In the Bay Area in Northern California, para transit doesn't work as
> well because para transit is restricted to intra-county trips in most
> cases and counties are small enough in the Bay Area that you're always
> crossing county lines to get from one place to another. Fortunately,
> the Bay Area public transportation network is pretty replete with
> interconnected trains, BART and express busses so that, with a little
> planning, fixed route transit can be a bit more efficient.
>
> Owning and operating a private car is expensive, but it's still
> cheaper than using cabs or a ride sharing service on a daily basis.
> What I wish is that we could figure out a way to provide a ride
> sharing service, like Uber or Lyft, that could be used on a daily
> basis for about the same monthly cost as operating a private car. I
> thought Uber held that promise when it began, but I fear that it has
> become too focused on replicating the service local cabs provide,
> rather than extending the transportation for hire paradigm to include longer trips.
>
> In conclusion, my observation is that para transit is useful as a
> periodic transportation crutch which can be used to fill in for gaps
> in availability of transport. However, for commuting to a job or
> other obligation, I think it best to search for alternatives to para
> transit as soon as the parameters of the regular commute are well
> understood. For better or worse, solving transportation issues are
> the province of the blind, and the employed blind better figure out
> how to do it with a minimum of inconvenience and/or trouble for their
> employers. Para transit can help with that, and I'm glad it's
> available as an option, but I don't think it should be the final
> solution, or, for that matter, the primary solution. I know folks who
> disagree with that notion and use para transit as their daily commute
> to work. And, there are times, when they were incredibly late to
> work. Whether that tardiness adversely affected their performance
> reviews at their jobs is hard to know for sure, but I venture to say, it did.
>
> Finally, just for the record, I've been fortunate to hold jobs in my
> career which haven't required daily lengthy commutes on public
> transportation. That has been partly through luck and design. I know
> others might not have that option, so might have to make diferent choices.
> The point I want to leave you with, however, is the following. My
> career has now, astonishingly, spanned more than 20 years. During
> that time, I've had to find a number of solutions to the
> transportation problem for various jobs and personal fulfillment. In
> that same time frame, the landscape of public transportation, including para transit, has changed significantly.
> The best advice I can offer for young folks who are learning the job
> and transportation ropes is to learn what transportation resources are
> available around you, including the use of van pools, private trades
> of rides for other things from friends and colleagues, and, of course
> publically available options. Then, use what's most convenient and
> least costly, remembering to factor in the personal cost of asking for
> favors or thinking of the convenience of others when making that calculation.
> Also, be flexible. Remember what worked 5 years ago might not work
> today and what works today might not work in 5 years. And, finally,
> as I mentioned earlier, don't make your transportation issues other
> people's problem.
>
>
> comthanks
> comBrian
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 16:44:31 com0700
> From: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'Ationfb of California List'" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> Message-ID: <001801d18a14$f1121c50$d33654f0$@michaelhingson.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=by us-ascii"
>
> Lisa,
>
> As Ted said the regulations do vary from place to place. The ADA
> created the concept for para transit. The Department of Transportation
> then put in place the rules and regulations agencies are required to
> follow in order to receive federal funding which makes up most of the
> money used to pay for rides.
>
> To my knowledge the federal regs do not go down to the detail of
> dealing with windows and penalties. I also am not aware of any
> California statutes that go further in this area then the fed.
>
> Your point about addressing one specific population over others is an
> interesting one. When I chaired the board of Whistlestop, the Marin
> County para transit agency, we did provide most of the transportation
> for persons with medical appointments. However, their rides were not
> given to the exclusion of other people. The agency did have contracts
> to provide medical transportation services, but we were obligated to
> provide all para transit rides as specified by our contract. If you
> feel you are facing discrimination you could file a complaint with the
> Justice Department. I hope this helps.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Lisa Irving via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 5:46 PM
> To: NFB of California List <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Lisa Irving <peacefulwoman89 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> I would like to direct this topic to Mike Tim Ted and all other
> knowledgeable individuals who might sit on committees or work with
> entities overseeing Paratransit. As you can see from Mary's response
> and for my information there a different standards for for Paratransit
> providers that is, there seems to be no consistency with the allowed
> window or actual consequences to the Paratransit provider. On one
> hand, according to Mary, her paratransit service provider gives a free
> ride if the driver is outside of his or her window. On the other hand,
> down here in San Diego no free rides are given unless the driver is an
> hour late. Go figure they have a 20 minute window but there appear to
> be no consequences until the drivers an hour late where is there the incentive to be on time?
>
> I'm prior occasions I have read some of the Paratransit regulations
> that is why I'm asking folks on the listserv about the regulations
> because they are not crystal-clear and there appeared to be different
> standards from provider to provider. What does California law say? The
> 88 appears to be somewhat ambiguous to perhaps I'm mistaken
>
> On a similar thread, at what point or Paratransit providers
> discriminating against the general population of Paratransit users
> when the bulk of subscription rides are assigned to one specific
> population within the disability community?
>
> Respectfully,
> Lisa Irving
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Mary Willows via Nfbc-info
> <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > You can google the regulations for your service. Each one is a
> > little different. Up here (Tri Valley) it is 15 minutes either side
> > of your pick up time. If they miss that half hour your next ride is free.
> > However, East Bay para transit does not offer that.
> > MW
> >
> > The National Federation of the blind knows that blindness is not the
> > characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> > the expectations of blind people because low expectations create
> > obstacles between blind people and our dreams.
> > You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
> >
> > National Federation of the Blind of California (NFBC)
> > 3934 Kern Court
> > Pleasanton, CA 94588
> > 925-462-8575
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Mary Willows, President NFBC
> > mwillows at sbcglobal.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > Lisa Irving via Nfbc-info
> > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 7:44 AM
> > To: NFB LIST SERVE
> > Cc: Lisa Irving
> > Subject: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> >
> > I have a question about Paratransit regulations. At what point are
> > there consequences for Paratransit providers when they are outside
> > of their window? San Diego Paratransit has a 20 minute window.
> >
> > Best,
> > Lisa Irving
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nfbc-info mailing list
> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for
> > Nfbc-info:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/mwillows%40sbcglobal.
> > net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nfbc-info mailing list
> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for
> Nfbc-info:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/peacefulwoman
> > 89
> > %40cox.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
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> ingson
> ._com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 17:35:15 com0700
> From: Brian Buhrow <buhrow at nfbcal.org>
> To: NFB of California List <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: buhrow at nfbcal.org
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> Message-ID: <201603300035.u2U0ZFTo029039 at lothlorien.nfbcal.org>
>
> Hello One minor correction to my previous post. I said the
> following:
>
> Were . . . ]
> if I wanted to travel from my home in Los Angeles in the South Bay, to
> my friends in Northridge, if I took fixed route transit, the one-way
> commute would take 3 hours. If I took para transit, the commute would
> take between
> 40 minutes and 1.5 hours, depending on traffic and how many other
> stops there were to be made. With a round trip time of 6 hours on
> fixed route transit, I'd be hard pressed to argue that a blind user
> should be forced to use para transit.
> Were . . .]
>
> I meant to say that I'd be hard pressed to argue that a blind user
> should be forced to use fixed route transit.
>
> comthanks
> comBrian
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 18:20:42 com0700
> From: "Michael Hingson" <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> To: "'Ationfb of California List'" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "'Brian Buhrow'" <buhrow at nfbcal.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> Message-ID: <001c01d18a22$60d359c0$227a0d40$@michaelhingson.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=by iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks Brian for the clarification. I agree that this subject is a
> button-pusher, but you expressed my feelings quite well. I think it is
> unrealistic to say that blind people should not use para transit
> simply because they can use their two legs to walk to a bus. Para
> transit was created to be kind of an equalizer for those who cannot
> easily get to fix route buses OR who cannot drive or have constant or
> good access to automobiles. Blind people were definitely part of the
> class intended to access para transit, but we should look at whether
> it is the best solution for us depend on the situation.
> When I worked in Marin I used para transit daily since it got me to my
> job in less than 20 minutes. The nearest bus stop was three miles
> away. Karen could not drive me to work daily.
> I believe the choice to use para transit is the same one Dr. Jernigan
> talked about when he discussed using a sighted guide. It is a personal
> choice AND it is also a matter of what is the best choice at the time.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
> "Speaking with Vision"
> Michael Hingson, President
> (415) 827-4084
> info at michaelhingson.com
> To order Michael Hingson's new book, Running With Roselle, and check
> on Michael Hingson's speaking availability for your next event please visit:
> www.michaelhingson.com
> his
> To purchase your own portrait of Roselle painted by the world's
> foremost animal artist, Ron Burns, please visit
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Brian Buhrow via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 5:35 PM
> To: NFB of California List <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Brian Buhrow <buhrow at nfbcal.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> Hello One minor correction to my previous post. I said the
> following:
>
> Were . . . ]
> if I wanted to travel from my home in Los Angeles in the South Bay, to
> my friends in Northridge, if I took fixed route transit, the one-way
> commute would take 3 hours. If I took para transit, the commute would
> take between
> 40 minutes and 1.5 hours, depending on traffic and how many other
> stops there were to be made. With a round trip time of 6 hours on
> fixed route transit, I'd be hard pressed to argue that a blind user
> should be forced to use para transit.
> Were . . .]
>
> I meant to say that I'd be hard pressed to argue that a blind user
> should be forced to use fixed route transit.
>
> comthanks
> comBrian
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
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> ingson
> ._com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 22:40:45 com0700
> From: "Lisa Irving" <peacefulwoman89 at cox.net>
> To: "'Ationfb of California List'" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> Message-ID: <002501d18a46$b4f628b0$1ee27a10$@cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=by us-ascii"
>
> Mike and all others
>
> First, in some respects, my life is better because para transit is
> just one more option that I have. As for "windows" and penalties, I
> miss the point of having a "window" if there's consequence for being
> outside of the window. In other words, why have a rule if there's no point to follow it. Make sense?
> As for favoritismeawell, a while back the Regional Center threatened
> to file a class-action suit against San Diego MTS and, I think it was
> Laidlaw at the time. Their cliennts were being taken advantage of
> because some riders had no way to communicate how long they had been
> kept on para transit. The class-action suit was dropped... one of the
> concessions was for Regional Center to receive more than 50% of the
> subscription rides. Many of the regional center clients reside in
> group homes/board and care homes. Clusters of clients are picked up;
> at the same time; or close to that, on a daily basis. Fast-forward.
> Instead of scheduleing the "Extra Board drivers" to drive vans sitting
> in the yard, many of us leave at ungodly hours in the morning or wait
> crazy long periods of time later in the day because subscription
> riders/ regional enter, monopolizes the availability of the ride service. Make some sense?
>
> Lisa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Michael Hingson via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 4:45 PM
> To: 'Ationfb of California List' <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Michael Hingson <mike at michaelhingson.com>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> Lisa,
>
> As Ted said the regulations do vary from place to place. The ADA
> created the concept for para transit. The Department of Transportation
> then put in place the rules and regulations agencies are required to
> follow in order to receive federal funding which makes up most of the
> money used to pay for rides.
>
> To my knowledge the federal regs do not go down to the detail of
> dealing with windows and penalties. I also am not aware of any
> California statutes that go further in this area then the fed.
>
> Your point about addressing one specific population over others is an
> interesting one. When I chaired the board of Whistlestop, the Marin
> County para transit agency, we did provide most of the transportation
> for persons with medical appointments. However, their rides were not
> given to the exclusion of other people. The agency did have contracts
> to provide medical transportation services, but we were obligated to
> provide all para transit rides as specified by our contract. If you
> feel you are facing discrimination you could file a complaint with the
> Justice Department. I hope this helps.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Lisa Irving via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 5:46 PM
> To: NFB of California List <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Lisa Irving <peacefulwoman89 at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> I would like to direct this topic to Mike Tim Ted and all other
> knowledgeable individuals who might sit on committees or work with
> entities overseeing Paratransit. As you can see from Mary's response
> and for my information there a different standards for for Paratransit
> providers that is, there seems to be no consistency with the allowed
> window or actual consequences to the Paratransit provider. On one
> hand, according to Mary, her paratransit service provider gives a free
> ride if the driver is outside of his or her window. On the other hand,
> down here in San Diego no free rides are given unless the driver is an
> hour late. Go figure they have a 20 minute window but there appear to
> be no consequences until the drivers an hour late where is there the incentive to be on time?
>
> I'm prior occasions I have read some of the Paratransit regulations
> that is why I'm asking folks on the listserv about the regulations
> because they are not crystal-clear and there appeared to be different
> standards from provider to provider. What does California law say? The
> 88 appears to be somewhat ambiguous to perhaps I'm mistaken
>
> On a similar thread, at what point or Paratransit providers
> discriminating against the general population of Paratransit users
> when the bulk of subscription rides are assigned to one specific
> population within the disability community?
>
> Respectfully,
> Lisa Irving
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Mary Willows via Nfbc-info
> <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > You can google the regulations for your service. Each one is a
> > little different. Up here (Tri Valley) it is 15 minutes either side
> > of your pick up time. If they miss that half hour your next ride is free.
> > However, East Bay para transit does not offer that.
> > MW
> >
> > The National Federation of the blind knows that blindness is not the
> > characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> > the expectations of blind people because low expectations create
> > obstacles between blind people and our dreams.
> > You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
> >
> > National Federation of the Blind of California (NFBC)
> > 3934 Kern Court
> > Pleasanton, CA 94588
> > 925-462-8575
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Mary Willows, President NFBC
> > mwillows at sbcglobal.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > Lisa Irving via Nfbc-info
> > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 7:44 AM
> > To: NFB LIST SERVE
> > Cc: Lisa Irving
> > Subject: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> >
> > I have a question about Paratransit regulations. At what point are
> > there consequences for Paratransit providers when they are outside
> > of their window? San Diego Paratransit has a 20 minute window.
> >
> > Best,
> > Lisa Irving
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nfbc-info mailing list
> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for
> > Nfbc-info:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/mwillows%40sbcglobal.
> > net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nfbc-info mailing list
> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for
> Nfbc-info:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/peacefulwoman
> > 89
> > %40cox.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
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> ingson
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> %40cox
> ._net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 22:43:53 com0700
> From: "Lisa Irving" <peacefulwoman89 at cox.net>
> To: "'Ationfb of California List'" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> Message-ID: <002701d18a47$24c16420$6e442c60$@cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=by us-ascii"
>
> Who on this list pays for a driver? You're fortunate to have the funds
> to make that choice. I consider myself fortunate enough to pay a
> driver; sometimes Uber, sometimes a friend in need of extra income,
> and sometimes para transit. The local center for the blind is one of a
> number of agencies that can certify the need for para transit. I like
> knowing that I have almost as many transportation options as the next
> guy down the street. Lucky for us we live in a region where we have so many choices.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Mary Willows via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 3:22 PM
> To: 'Ationfb of California List' <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Mary Willows <mwillows at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> I believe all the ADA says is that alternative transportation must be
> offered during the same time the fixed route buses are running. The
> Department of Transportation oversees the ADA regulations but your
> local bus company contracts with a third party to offer para transit
> services. So DOT says there must be an alternative service and then
> the Livermore Amidor Valley Transit Authority contracts with MV to
> provide that service. In fact, technically, blind people should not
> be using para transit at all. So if they are allowing you on the bus,
> be greatful. Our contract says that you cannot live within 2 blocks
> of a fixed route bus stop. Blindness is not really a reason to be
> picked up door to door. Para transit was intended for wheelchair
> people and other severe disabilities. If you are just blind and your
> legs work to walk and you have the cognative ability to get on a bus and pay your way, you are really not supposed to be using para transit.
> This is a perfect example of where you have to decide if you are
> vanilla or chocolate. You can't have it both ways. That is to say,
> wanting preferential treatment on the one hand and then wanting to be
> viewed as an independent disabled adult on the other hand.
>
> This ought to spark some lively discussion. Don't you think?
> This is the perfect time for the San Diego Chapter members to try and
> get on the advisory committee for your transit system. Ask Dennis
> Russak. He knows all about the ADA service in Sacramento. He is Mr. Transportation.
> Jim served on our local para transit advisory committee for many, many
> years. The really funny thing is that the members were quite often
> late for the meeting because they relied on para transit to get them
> there. It was perfect. Management saw first hand how inefficient the service was.
>
> It would be very interesting to see what the listers say about this topic.
> It's a button pusher.
>
> comMary Willows
> The National Federation of the blind knows that blindness is not the
> characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> the expectations of blind people because low expectations create
> obstacles between blind people and our dreams.
> You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
>
> National Federation of the Blind of California (NFBC)
> 3934 Kern Court
> Pleasanton, CA 94588
> 925-462-8575
>
> Thank you,
> Mary Willows, President NFBC
> mwillows at sbcglobal.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Clark, Ted A at DOT via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2016 8:59 AM
> To: NFB of California List
> Cc: Clark, Ted A at DOT
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> It is my understanding that it will vary from location to location on
> the window time. And as far as I am aware there are no penalties
> against paratransit if they are not with inside the window.
> Contact your local paratransit and ask them to see if they have a
> guide spelling out the commuters rights
>
>
>
> Ted Clark
> EEO/Disability Analyst
> Equal Employment Opportunity Program (EEOP)
> 1820 Alhambra Blvd, MS 92
> Sacramento, CA 95816
> Office (916) 227-7518,
> Fax (916) 227-5199
> TTY 711
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Lisa Irving via Nfbc-info
> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 5:46 PM
> To: NFB of California List
> Cc: Lisa Irving
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
>
> I would like to direct this topic to Mike Tim Ted and all other
> knowledgeable individuals who might sit on committees or work with
> entities overseeing Paratransit. As you can see from Mary's response
> and for my information there a different standards for for Paratransit
> providers that is, there seems to be no consistency with the allowed
> window or actual consequences to the Paratransit provider. On one
> hand, according to Mary, her paratransit service provider gives a free
> ride if the driver is outside of his or her window. On the other hand,
> down here in San Diego no free rides are given unless the driver is an
> hour late. Go figure they have a 20 minute window but there appear to
> be no consequences until the drivers an hour late where is there the incentive to be on time?
>
> I'm prior occasions I have read some of the Paratransit regulations
> that is why I'm asking folks on the listserv about the regulations
> because they are not crystal-clear and there appeared to be different
> standards from provider to provider. What does California law say? The
> 88 appears to be somewhat ambiguous to perhaps I'm mistaken
>
> On a similar thread, at what point or Paratransit providers
> discriminating against the general population of Paratransit users
> when the bulk of subscription rides are assigned to one specific
> population within the disability community?
>
> Respectfully,
> Lisa Irving
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 28, 2016, at 10:07 AM, Mary Willows via Nfbc-info
> <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > You can google the regulations for your service. Each one is a
> > little different. Up here (Tri Valley) it is 15 minutes either side
> > of your pick up time. If they miss that half hour your next ride is free.
> > However, East Bay para transit does not offer that.
> > MW
> >
> > The National Federation of the blind knows that blindness is not the
> > characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise
> > the expectations of blind people because low expectations create
> > obstacles between blind people and our dreams.
> > You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.
> >
> > National Federation of the Blind of California (NFBC)
> > 3934 Kern Court
> > Pleasanton, CA 94588
> > 925-462-8575
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Mary Willows, President NFBC
> > mwillows at sbcglobal.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nfbc-info [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > Lisa Irving via Nfbc-info
> > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 7:44 AM
> > To: NFB LIST SERVE
> > Cc: Lisa Irving
> > Subject: [Nfbc-info] Paratransit regulations
> >
> > I have a question about Paratransit regulations. At what point are
> > there consequences for Paratransit providers when they are outside
> > of their window? San Diego Paratransit has a 20 minute window.
> >
> > Best,
> > Lisa Irving
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nfbc-info mailing list
> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for
> > Nfbc-info:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/mwillows%40sbcglobal.
> > net
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Nfbc-info mailing list
> > Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for
> Nfbc-info:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/peacefulwoman
> > 89
> > %40cox.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/ted.clark%40dot
> .ca.go
> v
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
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> net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Nfbc-info:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/peacefulwoman89
> %40cox
> ._net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 01:10:38 com0700
> From: "Charles Krugman" <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBC" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Nfbc-info] California court grants judgment for blind
> plaintiff in web accessibility case
> Message-ID: <56BEF4B55FFC4667B0E53CAD8FBB38F2 at Spike>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=by iso-8859-1"
>
> Judgment for Blind Plaintiff in Website Disability Case
>
>
>
> Judgment for Blind Plaintiff in Website Disability Case
>
>
>
> California court grants first-ever summary judgment in website access
> lawsuit
>
>
>
> 09:42 ET from
>
> Newport Trial Group
>
>
> SAN BERNARDINO, Calif., March 25, 2016 /PRNewswire/ ? A California
> Judge has granted summary judgment to a visually-impaired plaintiff
> who was unable to
>
> access the website of luggage retailer Colorado Bag'n & Baggage.
>
>
>
> Plaintiff Edward Davis filed suit in 2015 (case #CIBDS1504682),
> claiming that he was unable to access the Colorado Bag'n & Baggage
> website because the content
>
> on the website was not accessible to blind individuals. Judge Brian
> F. Foster agreed and issued judgment in favor of Davis, ruling
> "Plaintiff presented
>
> sufficient evidence that he was denied full and equal enjoyment of the
> goods, services, privileges, and accommodations offered by Defendant
> because of
>
> his disability." The Judge also awarded Davis $4,000.00 in damages.
> The ruling, believed to be the first-ever summary judgment in favor of
> a visually-impaired
>
> Plaintiff claiming that a website violates the Americans with Disabilities Act, also entitles Davis to recover his attorneys' fees.
>
>
>
> Davis' attorney, Victoria Knowles of the Newport Trial Group, lauded
> the decision: "We are very grateful that the Court agreed that
> corporate websites must
>
> be accessible to individuals with disabilities. This ruling will have
> implications far and wide." Added Newport Trial Group's Managing
> Partner David
>
> Reid: "We are fortunate that we continue to do well by doing good."
>
>
>
> For more information:
>
> Katherine Kirshner
>
> 9497066464
>
> Email
>
> www.trialnewport.com
>
>
> http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/judgment-for-blind-plaintiff-i
> n-website-disability-case-300241469.htmlNewport Trial Group logo
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Nfbc-info Digest, Vol 130, Issue 29
> ******************************************
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