[nfbcs] UltraEdit

Wed Jan 14 03:48:38 UTC 2009

Joe,

One of the reasons that Jamal wrote EdSharp was so that people could avoid the kind of problems you are going 
through.  Generally, I think he did a good job.  It isn't easy, though, to be both an expert in accessibility and an expert in 
text editing, especially as environments change.  Still he deserves credit, and if you find you run into trouble, EdSharp 
isn't a bad fallback.  I would have thought twice about suggesting this little side-trip if I knew this was going to cause the 
trouble it has caused you.

I am not certain, but I believe that the messages you are getting regarding the next paragraph is coming from a JFW 
script.  My guess is that this could be worked out by altering something within UltraEdit and NoteTab, or by altering 
something in the JFW script itself.  Some editors have a "next paragraph" key and some do not.  The script can be 
written to use the editor's next paragraph key or it can move the cursor itself and determin where the paragraph 
boundary is.  If it uses the editor's keystrokes and they either behave differently or the same keystrokes do different 
things, you will get unusual responses.  Also, if you are moving by paragraph in text, you will want to turn word wrapping 
on.  This does not add line breaks permanently to the document, but it could make a difference when a screen reader is 
trying to read a paragraph.  It insures all text is on the screen.  You can toggle word wrap on and off with CONTROL-W, 
or you can check and change its status on the Edit Menu with the "Toggle Word Wrap" option.  It is near the bottom of 
a long list, so you can get there more quickly using the UP ARROW after bringing up the Edit menu.

I would urge you to start out just exploring the editors you try at their basic navigation to see if they offer what you need.  
You can't really judge any editor by how it reacts to JFW scripts not written for it.  As I understand it, that is partly why 
Jamal incorporates his HOMER scripts into the distributions of his products so he has control over both.  That makes a 
lot of sense.  

I could do a lot more with Window-Eyes than I do with UltraEdit, but all I have done is to assign a key to read the part of 
the status line that provides the line and column number in the document.  If I were more heavily into HTML, I might find 
it necessary to do more, though.

I'm glad to try to offer more suggestions if you are interested, on or off list, as long as you understand that I am not doing 
so because I think UltraEdit is right for everyone nor am I saying one shouldn't use EdSharp.  I just think that if one is 
going to do some serious text editing, it's good to know what is out there before making a decision just as you seem to 
be doing.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 21:15:41 -0500, Joe Orozco wrote:

>Steve,

>I'm continuing the thread on list in case it benefits anyone else, but if
>folks are getting tired of it, let me know.

>I found the settings you outlined in your last message.  Neither helped, but
>I did turn off the Ruler off the View menu, which I'd previously neglected.
>Anyway, we've made some progress.  Now I can navigate the document using the
>arrows; however, I appear to be limited to this.  Jumping paragraph to
>paragraph produces random jumps and repeats.  Or, I get a suggestion to
>maximize the window because the block is too large.  I maximize, but again
>the results are sketchy.

>Now, we could chalk it up to a problem with UltraEdit; however, the same
>thing appears to be happening with NoteTab Pro.  I switched back from JAWS
>10 to JAWS 7.1, and the results are the same.  Could it have anything at all
>to do with the fact that both packages are being used on a trial basis?

>Also, how does one utilize the spell-check function on either package?

>Thanks for patiently walking me through this strange behavior.  I know it
>must have something to do with JAWS, but ironically, EdSharp seems to be
>working just fine.  My only beef with this program is that it is slower than
>I would like it to behave.

>Any additional thoughts and/or suggestions would be appreciated.  Thank you.

>Joe Orozco

>"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M.
>Barrie
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Steve Jacobson
>Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 5:19 PM
>To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] UltraEdit

>Joe,

>Let's try to get you to the cursor options before you give up because they
>are there but not real obvious.  I believe it is likely that something there
>will help.  You JFW users really should bug Freedom Scientific because JFW
>seems more sensitive to cursor shapes than does Window-Eyes.  I have noticed
>this with 3270 emulation as well.

>Go to the "Advanced menu, and press ENGER on Configuration.  You are now in
>a sort of huge tree view with a number of sections.  Each section starts
>with an "advanced item if you were to DOWN ARROW through it, but don't do
>that.  If you press TAB, you should be in an edit box.  This feature lets
>you search for specific options.  If you type in the word "cursor" and then
>press the "GO" button which is the next thing in the tab order, you should
>find yourself in the "cursor" options.  
>The first option is a pair of radio check boxes that lets you choose between
>a vertical bar or underscore for the "Normal cursor/caret".  This is the one
>that is used in INSERT mode and is usually being used.  You might want to
>change this to see if it makes a difference.  

>tabbing to the next option lets you decide what you want the cursor to look
>like in overstrike mode.  A couple of options involve block and inverse
>cursors and I have found JFW to sometimes have trouble with these.  I would
>set that option to force the normal cursor to be used so you have fewer
>variables.

>Check this out and let me know what happens.  I am happy enough with this
>program that I will go ahead and ask if anybody on a programming list I am
>subscribed to knows what the key here is.  Obviously, this is only worth so
>much time for you and I realize that, but I think it is likely that there is
>something pretty simple that we are missing so far and this seems the most
>likely.

>On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:11:07 -0500, Joe Orozco wrote:

>>Steve,

>>I'm afraid I have continued to have no success with UltraEditor.  I 
>>unchecked everything on the View Toolbars except Main.  JFW began 
>>reading one line at a time, but it would only read the current line and 
>>then get stuck on that line.  I went to Tools/Configuration, but all I 
>>have found there is Command Line, Browse and nothing that would 
>>indicate a menu.  I went to the option that just says Configure but 
>>found nothing with a cursor option.  It's frustrating because the 
>>program appears to have a lot of what I'm looking for, though I suppose 
>>I may need to look into this NoteTab Pro you mentioned earlier.  Let me
>know if you have any other suggestions.

>>Best,

>>Joe Orozco

>>"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M.
>>Barrie
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>>Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:29 AM
>>To: NFBCS; NFB-Web
>>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] UltraEdit

>>Joe,

>>I am using UltraEdit 14.10 and also used 14.0 with Window-Eyes and have 
>>not had the problem you are having.
>>However, it is my understanding that people with JFW are using it as well.
>>I can make several suggestions, though.

>>First, go to the view menu and uncheck all extras on the screen.  These 
>>are like other view menus where you press ENTER and you leave the menu 
>>altogether but the status of the given item has been changed.  Most of 
>>these will be in the views/lists submenu.  I am not saying you can't 
>>have any of these on, only that at this point we don't know which might 
>>be causing you problems.  Second, see if you get different results by 
>>pressing INSERT changing from INSERT mode to overtype mode.  This 
>>changes the cursor.  If JFW tracks the overtype cursor but not the 
>>INSERT cursor, you can change the appearance of the cursor on the 
>>Tools/Configuration menu.  This is a very large menu, and you can type 
>>"cursor" into the "navigate" edit box and you will be taken right there.

>>Given the problem that someone else mentioned about UltraEdit adding 
>>characters and the problems you are having, you could also check out 
>>NoteTab Pro at

>>http://www.notetab.com

>>because that is another very good alternative.  I switched from that to 
>>UltraEdit for reasons unrelated to HTML, but you might have better luck 
>>there.  When I switched, I didn't like the user interface of NoteTab as 
>>well as UltraEdit's.

>>I would definitely urge you to find and successfully use at least one 
>>mainstream editor to try just so you get a feel for the features that 
>>are out there and what the accessibility issues are.  Also, certainly 
>>contact Jamal as suggested because he may either not be aware of the 
>>problem you had or he may already have a workaround.  Let me know if 
>>you have any luck with UltraEdit or if you have any questions.

>>Best regards,

>>Steve Jacobson

>>On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:04:57 -0500, Joe Orozco wrote:

>>>Hello,

>>>I downloaded the recent version of UltraEdit, 14.0.  Unfortunately, I 
>>>can't get JAWS to read what I have typed into the file.  Is there a 
>>>setting I can check or uncheck to make the text accessible, or might 
>>>this be a glitch of the new version?  Everything else appears to be 
>>>accessible.  I have not yet given up on EdSharp, but I thought I'd try 
>>>out another text editor, just in case.

>>>Joe Orozco

>>>"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James
>M.
>>>Barrie

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