[nfbcs] UltraEdit

Wed Jan 14 22:36:52 UTC 2009

Son of a gun.   Okay, so my Alt + arrow keys make the program do what I need
it to do.  I read the current line like you suggested, and it's getting me
to where I need to go.  Now, is there a way to make JAWS read these
paragraphs out loud without manually telling it to?  I know, I'm a lazy
bastard, but if there's a way to do it, I'd like to be able to do so. *grin*

For the record, I went to the JAWS configuration menu, checked the Enhanced
Text Processing option, and the navigation did not change.  I went and
changed the caret search in the script file to CaretSearch=254 after adding
a new [OSM] category, and nothing happened there either.

So, I can live with unannounced Alt key paragraph jumps.  All in all, I
think UltraEdit is a fine program.  It seems a little advanced, but
feature-rich is better than insufficient options.  Do you have any other
tips and tricks to make the program easy to use?  I've searched the Internet
but have come up with very little as far as JAWS interacting with UltraEdit.

Before I drop the bone, let me ask you about your NoteTab experience.
Someone told me Jamal wrote scripts for NoteTab Pro, making that bit of
software very blind-user friendly.  Did you use these?  I forget if you use
Window Eyes exclusively or if you also use JAWS.

In any case, I really appreciate all your help, and my apologies to the rest
of the list for dragging on the thread.  I hope it has helped someone in
some way.

Best,

Joe Orozco

"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M.
Barrie
-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Steve Jacobson
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:54 PM
To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] UltraEdit

Joe,

Our notes crossed in the mail.  Do you understand why CONTROL UP and CONTROL
DOWN may not be working?  I tried ALT LEFT and ALT RIGHT and then read the
current line and believe those keys work, but they won't read paragraphs
automatically without help.  If you have the plain arro keys working, HOME,
END, and CONTROL LEFT and CONTROL RIGHT, than I think you have the cursor
problem licked.  One has to separate JFW functionality designed for a
specific application from the behavior of other applications.  By the way,
UltraEdit comes with the home key set to go to the first nonblank character
on the line.  A second press goes to the very beginning.  You can change
that behavior if you like, but you need to know it is happening so you don't
think it is just another problem.  
<smile>  

Let me know if all this makes sense.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:15:01 -0500, Joe Orozco wrote:

>Hello Steve,

>I'm using JAWS 10 but switched back to JAWS 7.1 to see if there may be 
>bugs in JAWS that could be causing the problems.  Both versions 
>experienced the same issues, so I'm at a loss as to which application 
>is causing the hang-up.

>Now, I have a text file in UltraEdit.  It's nothing complicated, just 
>an unadorned text file with a list of books and descriptions.  If I 
>read line by line JAWS reads the text just fine.  If, however, I begin 
>to use Control
>+ arrows, I am stuck between two paragraphs.  Or, sometimes it will 
>+ only
>repeat itself as though it cannot focus beyond that one block of text.
>Sometimes it will jump from paragraph to paragraph going down, but when 
>you try to retrace your steps it will hit a certain paragraph and go no 
>further up the file.  In other words, my ability to jump from section 
>to section is very unpredictable.

>I have turned off all highlighting.  I have gone into the Configuration 
>menu and made word wrap the default for all files.  I have changed the 
>environment set from HTML to Notepad replacement.  I have tinkered with 
>the cursor shapes.  I have tried to find something in the JAWS 
>configuration manager, at least with Insert + V.  Although my 
>accessibility has increased, my ability to navigate is spotty.

>When using NoteTab Pro I have taken similar steps.  I didn't realize 
>that particular program has a blind user mode.  Anyway, this too is turned
on.

>I'd like to think I'm somewhat advanced in my ability to make JAWS work 
>with other programs.  But, so far, no joy.  I may try out Boxer or 
>Crimson Editor, but I feel hesitant to budge from UltraEdit and NoteTab 
>before determining something is just not computing well and can't be
resolved.

>Thank you so much for all your assistance.

>Joe Orozco

>"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James M.
>Barrie
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 11:50 AM
>To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] UltraEdit

>Joe,

>I think that keeping this on the list here is of value because others 
>may have thoughts.  There was one response on PROGRAM-L who uses 
>UltraEdit 11 with JFW 9 and 10 and says he has not had the problems you 
>are having.  I tend to doubt that there have been changes from V11 to 
>V14 that should add problems, but do I recall that you were using an 
>earlier version of JFW?  It could be that cursor tracking has improved.  
>I don't see any advantage is looking for the version Lloyd is running 
>because there were some problems with menus as I recall, and Lloyd 
>mentioned the option to select the classic menus.  This problem was 
>fixed to my knowledge in version 11 and menus have remained solid for 
>me ever since.  I have not noticed any problems or adjustments related 
>to cursor tracking since with Window-Eyes.  If you decide on one of 
>these editors and continue to have problems, there are some "caret" 
>options within JFW that might be adjusted to give you better results.  
>However, I don't think you want to be starting with that for multiple 
>editors.  I do not know if you plan on taking advantage of syntax 
>highlighting which automatically shows different elements of a 
>programming language in different colors or not.  I have not used that 
>functionality and turned it off figuring that changing colors might 
>provide greater opportunity for a screen reader to lock on a certain 
>color.  This may not have been a problem at all, I don't know.  I also 
>think that there might be an option in UltraEdit that highlights the 
>entire current line to make it stand out visually.  I turned it off for the
same reason, as I recall, but I did so to avoid potential problems and not
because it actually caused any.
>I'll look to see if I can find that option.  Since I've been using this 
>program for a few years, at least since version 9 and possibly before, 
>it is hard to remember the cumulative changes I may have made.

>I do not remember the details, but it seems to me that EdSharp is 
>written in a high-level language that could affect its speed.  Like 
>you, I like quick response and such so it probably makes sense for you 
>to continue pursuing this.  For the short term, as mentioned before, I 
>would concentrate on the editor's functionality and basic navigation, 
>avoiding functionality supplied by JFW scripts, as I suspect is the 
>Next Paragraph key.  These kinds of things can most likely be worked out
after you have settled on an editor.
>If you can help me understand problems you still have with UltraEdit, I 
>can try to make additional suggestions.

>Best regards,

>Steve Jacobson

>On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:01:55 -0500, Joe Orozco wrote:

>>Steve,

>>On the contrary, I like to know my options.  It's been firmly 
>>established that EdSharp is not a bad program, but that should not 
>>exclude other packages with a range of features that give EdSharp 
>>competition.  As I've said, the speed is an issue for me.  This is 
>>easily overlooked, but the menu of accessories is sometimes put on the 
>>spot when other programs appear to have a competitive interface and
>capacity.

>>For my purposes, I need a robust text editor with a decent HTML 
>>capacity.  I spend about equal time manipulating both areas, and I 
>>don't mind spending the money if it means a central program with the 
>>ability to perform well in both environments.  I made the investment 
>>on DreamWeaver, and while I would rely on this mammoth program to 
>>design larger projects, I'm interested in a solid NotePad replacement 
>>that can be exercised for daily tasks that do not require extravagant 
>>bells and whistles.  Besides, I believe in my own capacity to do 
>>things by hand even if it takes a little longer.  Anyway, this is all 
>>to give you a sense
>of what I'm trying to do with the program.

>>Unfortunately, I did not find an earlier version of UltraEdit on 
>>Download.com.  I wonder if reverting to Lloyd's version 10 might do me 
>>good, but I am convinced there is a way to make the thing work.  And 
>>like you, I believe the problem is squarely with JAWS.

>>Anyway, I'll keep you posted, and hope you'll do the same.

>>Best,

>>Joe Orozco

>>"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James
M.
>>Barrie
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>>Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:49 PM
>>To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] UltraEdit

>>Joe,

>>One of the reasons that Jamal wrote EdSharp was so that people could 
>>avoid the kind of problems you are going through.  Generally, I think 
>>he did a good job.  It isn't easy, though, to be both an expert in 
>>accessibility and an expert in text editing, especially as 
>>environments change.  Still he deserves credit, and if you find you 
>>run into trouble, EdSharp isn't a bad fallback.  I would have thought 
>>twice about suggesting this little side-trip if I knew this was going 
>>to cause
>the trouble it has caused you.

>>I am not certain, but I believe that the messages you are getting 
>>regarding the next paragraph is coming from a JFW script.  My guess is 
>>that this could be worked out by altering something within UltraEdit 
>>and NoteTab, or by altering something in the JFW script itself.  Some 
>>editors have a "next paragraph" key and some do not.  The script can 
>>be written to use the editor's next paragraph key or it can move the 
>>cursor itself and determin where the paragraph boundary is.  If it 
>>uses the editor's keystrokes and they either behave differently or the 
>>same keystrokes do different things, you will get unusual responses.  
>>Also, if you are moving by paragraph in text, you will want to turn 
>>word wrapping on.  This does not add line breaks permanently to the 
>>document, but it could make a difference when a screen reader is 
>>trying to
>read a paragraph.  It insures all text is on the screen.
>>You can toggle word wrap on and off with CONTROL-W, or you can check 
>>and change its status on the Edit Menu with the "Toggle Word Wrap"
>>option.  It is near the bottom of a long list, so you can get there 
>>more quickly using the UP ARROW after bringing up the Edit menu.

>>I would urge you to start out just exploring the editors you try at 
>>their basic navigation to see if they offer what you need.
>>You can't really judge any editor by how it reacts to JFW scripts not 
>>written for it.  As I understand it, that is partly why Jamal 
>>incorporates his HOMER scripts into the distributions of his products 
>>so he has control over both.  That makes a lot of sense.

>>I could do a lot more with Window-Eyes than I do with UltraEdit, but 
>>all I have done is to assign a key to read the part of the status line 
>>that provides the line and column number in the document.  If I were 
>>more heavily into HTML, I might find it necessary to do more, though.

>>I'm glad to try to offer more suggestions if you are interested, on or 
>>off list, as long as you understand that I am not doing so because I 
>>think UltraEdit is right for everyone nor am I saying one shouldn't 
>>use
>EdSharp.
>>I just think that if one is going to do some serious text editing, 
>>it's good to know what is out there before making a decision just as 
>>you seem to be doing.

>>Best regards,

>>Steve Jacobson

>>On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 21:15:41 -0500, Joe Orozco wrote:

>>>Steve,

>>>I'm continuing the thread on list in case it benefits anyone else, 
>>>but if folks are getting tired of it, let me know.

>>>I found the settings you outlined in your last message.  Neither 
>>>helped, but I did turn off the Ruler off the View menu, which I'd
>>previously neglected.
>>>Anyway, we've made some progress.  Now I can navigate the document 
>>>using the arrows; however, I appear to be limited to this.  Jumping 
>>>paragraph to paragraph produces random jumps and repeats.  Or, I get 
>>>a suggestion to maximize the window because the block is too large.  
>>>I maximize, but again the results are sketchy.

>>>Now, we could chalk it up to a problem with UltraEdit; however, the 
>>>same thing appears to be happening with NoteTab Pro.  I switched back 
>>>from JAWS 10 to JAWS 7.1, and the results are the same.  Could it 
>>>have anything at all to do with the fact that both packages are being 
>>>used on a
>>trial basis?

>>>Also, how does one utilize the spell-check function on either package?

>>>Thanks for patiently walking me through this strange behavior.  I 
>>>know it must have something to do with JAWS, but ironically, EdSharp 
>>>seems to be working just fine.  My only beef with this program is 
>>>that it is slower than I would like it to behave.

>>>Any additional thoughts and/or suggestions would be appreciated.  
>>>Thank
>>you.

>>>Joe Orozco

>>>"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for 
>>>humanity."--James
>M.
>>>Barrie
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>>>Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 5:19 PM
>>>To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] UltraEdit

>>>Joe,

>>>Let's try to get you to the cursor options before you give up because 
>>>they are there but not real obvious.  I believe it is likely that 
>>>something there will help.  You JFW users really should bug Freedom 
>>>Scientific because JFW seems more sensitive to cursor shapes than 
>>>does Window-Eyes.  I have noticed this with 3270 emulation as well.

>>>Go to the "Advanced menu, and press ENGER on Configuration.  You are 
>>>now in a sort of huge tree view with a number of sections.  Each 
>>>section starts with an "advanced item if you were to DOWN ARROW 
>>>through it, but don't do that.  If you press TAB, you should be in an 
>>>edit
>box.
>>>This feature lets you search for specific options.  If you type in 
>>>the word "cursor" and then press the "GO" button which is the next 
>>>thing in the tab order, you should find yourself in the "cursor" options.
>>>The first option is a pair of radio check boxes that lets you choose 
>>>between a vertical bar or underscore for the "Normal cursor/caret".
>>>This is the one that is used in INSERT mode and is usually being used.  
>>>You might want to change this to see if it makes a difference.

>>>tabbing to the next option lets you decide what you want the cursor 
>>>to look like in overstrike mode.  A couple of options involve block 
>>>and inverse cursors and I have found JFW to sometimes have trouble 
>>>with these.  I would set that option to force the normal cursor to be 
>>>used so you have fewer variables.

>>>Check this out and let me know what happens.  I am happy enough with 
>>>this program that I will go ahead and ask if anybody on a programming 
>>>list I am subscribed to knows what the key here is.  Obviously, this 
>>>is only worth so much time for you and I realize that, but I think it 
>>>is likely that there is something pretty simple that we are missing 
>>>so far and this seems the most likely.

>>>On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:11:07 -0500, Joe Orozco wrote:

>>>>Steve,

>>>>I'm afraid I have continued to have no success with UltraEditor.  I 
>>>>unchecked everything on the View Toolbars except Main.  JFW began 
>>>>reading one line at a time, but it would only read the current line 
>>>>and then get stuck on that line.  I went to Tools/Configuration, but 
>>>>all I have found there is Command Line, Browse and nothing that 
>>>>would indicate a menu.  I went to the option that just says 
>>>>Configure but found nothing with a cursor option.  It's frustrating 
>>>>because the program appears to have a lot of what I'm looking for, 
>>>>though I suppose I may need to look into this NoteTab Pro you 
>>>>mentioned earlier.  Let me
>>>know if you have any other suggestions.

>>>>Best,

>>>>Joe Orozco

>>>>"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for 
>>>>humanity."--James
>>M.
>>>>Barrie
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>>Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>>>>Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:29 AM
>>>>To: NFBCS; NFB-Web
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] UltraEdit

>>>>Joe,

>>>>I am using UltraEdit 14.10 and also used 14.0 with Window-Eyes and 
>>>>have not had the problem you are having.
>>>>However, it is my understanding that people with JFW are using it as
>well.
>>>>I can make several suggestions, though.

>>>>First, go to the view menu and uncheck all extras on the screen.  
>>>>These are like other view menus where you press ENTER and you leave 
>>>>the menu altogether but the status of the given item has been changed.
>>>>Most of these will be in the views/lists submenu.  I am not saying 
>>>>you can't have any of these on, only that at this point we don't 
>>>>know which might be causing you problems.  Second, see if you get 
>>>>different results by pressing INSERT changing from INSERT mode to
>overtype mode.
>>>>This changes the cursor.  If JFW tracks the overtype cursor but not 
>>>>the INSERT cursor, you can change the appearance of the cursor on 
>>>>the Tools/Configuration menu.  This is a very large menu, and you 
>>>>can type "cursor" into the "navigate" edit box and you will be taken 
>>>>right
>there.

>>>>Given the problem that someone else mentioned about UltraEdit adding 
>>>>characters and the problems you are having, you could also check out 
>>>>NoteTab Pro at

>>>>http://www.notetab.com

>>>>because that is another very good alternative.  I switched from that 
>>>>to UltraEdit for reasons unrelated to HTML, but you might have 
>>>>better luck there.  When I switched, I didn't like the user 
>>>>interface of NoteTab as well as UltraEdit's.

>>>>I would definitely urge you to find and successfully use at least 
>>>>one mainstream editor to try just so you get a feel for the features 
>>>>that are out there and what the accessibility issues are.  Also, 
>>>>certainly contact Jamal as suggested because he may either not be 
>>>>aware of the problem you had or he may already have a workaround.  
>>>>Let me know if you have any luck with UltraEdit or if you have any
questions.

>>>>Best regards,

>>>>Steve Jacobson

>>>>On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:04:57 -0500, Joe Orozco wrote:

>>>>>Hello,

>>>>>I downloaded the recent version of UltraEdit, 14.0.  Unfortunately, 
>>>>>I can't get JAWS to read what I have typed into the file.  Is there 
>>>>>a setting I can check or uncheck to make the text accessible, or 
>>>>>might this be a glitch of the new version?  Everything else appears 
>>>>>to be accessible.  I have not yet given up on EdSharp, but I 
>>>>>thought I'd try out another text editor, just in case.

>>>>>Joe Orozco

>>>>>"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for 
>>>>>humanity."--James
>>>M.
>>>>>Barrie

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