[nfbcs] UltraEdit

Thu Jan 15 00:46:37 UTC 2009

Have you tried control up and control down arrows?

Nancy Coffman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] UltraEdit

> Joe,
>
> I have used JFW in the past and still try to keep up with what it does by 
> downloading an occasional demo.  My main program, though, is Window-Eyes. 
> I did not use
> Jamal's scripts for NoteTab, and I am not sure what the Blind Friendly 
> mode does.
>
> To make JFW do what you want it to do, a script needs to be attached to 
> the ALT LEFT and ALT RIGHT arrows to send the corresponding key and then 
> read the
> current paragraph.  It is probably quite easy to modify the scripts 
> already connected to the CONTROL UP and CONTROL DOSN keys.  I would give 
> it a shot but I
> do not have JFW installed on anything, but perhaps someone here could 
> assist.
>
> The likelihood is that you might find some things like this that you would 
> need to do with NoteTab as well but I do not know for certain.  There may 
> be some more
> basic editors that have HTML tag insertion, but I don't have any 
> suggestions, and while both UltraEdit and NoteTab have a lot of features, 
> they are arranged such
> that you don't need to deal with them.  I really use UltraEdit as a fairly 
> basic editor most of the time.
>
> Good luck and again, ask if you have questions.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 17:36:52 -0500, Joe Orozco wrote:
>
>>Son of a gun.   Okay, so my Alt + arrow keys make the program do what I 
>>need
>>it to do.  I read the current line like you suggested, and it's getting me
>>to where I need to go.  Now, is there a way to make JAWS read these
>>paragraphs out loud without manually telling it to?  I know, I'm a lazy
>>bastard, but if there's a way to do it, I'd like to be able to do so. 
>>*grin*
>
>>For the record, I went to the JAWS configuration menu, checked the 
>>Enhanced
>>Text Processing option, and the navigation did not change.  I went and
>>changed the caret search in the script file to CaretSearch=254 after 
>>adding
>>a new [OSM] category, and nothing happened there either.
>
>>So, I can live with unannounced Alt key paragraph jumps.  All in all, I
>>think UltraEdit is a fine program.  It seems a little advanced, but
>>feature-rich is better than insufficient options.  Do you have any other
>>tips and tricks to make the program easy to use?  I've searched the 
>>Internet
>>but have come up with very little as far as JAWS interacting with 
>>UltraEdit.
>
>>Before I drop the bone, let me ask you about your NoteTab experience.
>>Someone told me Jamal wrote scripts for NoteTab Pro, making that bit of
>>software very blind-user friendly.  Did you use these?  I forget if you 
>>use
>>Window Eyes exclusively or if you also use JAWS.
>
>>In any case, I really appreciate all your help, and my apologies to the 
>>rest
>>of the list for dragging on the thread.  I hope it has helped someone in
>>some way.
>
>>Best,
>
>>Joe Orozco
>
>>"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James 
>>M.
>>Barrie
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>Of Steve Jacobson
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 2:54 PM
>>To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
>>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] UltraEdit
>
>>Joe,
>
>>Our notes crossed in the mail.  Do you understand why CONTROL UP and 
>>CONTROL
>>DOWN may not be working?  I tried ALT LEFT and ALT RIGHT and then read the
>>current line and believe those keys work, but they won't read paragraphs
>>automatically without help.  If you have the plain arro keys working, 
>>HOME,
>>END, and CONTROL LEFT and CONTROL RIGHT, than I think you have the cursor
>>problem licked.  One has to separate JFW functionality designed for a
>>specific application from the behavior of other applications.  By the way,
>>UltraEdit comes with the home key set to go to the first nonblank 
>>character
>>on the line.  A second press goes to the very beginning.  You can change
>>that behavior if you like, but you need to know it is happening so you 
>>don't
>>think it is just another problem.
>><smile>
>
>>Let me know if all this makes sense.
>
>>Best regards,
>
>>Steve Jacobson
>
>>On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:15:01 -0500, Joe Orozco wrote:
>
>>>Hello Steve,
>
>>>I'm using JAWS 10 but switched back to JAWS 7.1 to see if there may be
>>>bugs in JAWS that could be causing the problems.  Both versions
>>>experienced the same issues, so I'm at a loss as to which application
>>>is causing the hang-up.
>
>>>Now, I have a text file in UltraEdit.  It's nothing complicated, just
>>>an unadorned text file with a list of books and descriptions.  If I
>>>read line by line JAWS reads the text just fine.  If, however, I begin
>>>to use Control
>>>+ arrows, I am stuck between two paragraphs.  Or, sometimes it will
>>>+ only
>>>repeat itself as though it cannot focus beyond that one block of text.
>>>Sometimes it will jump from paragraph to paragraph going down, but when
>>>you try to retrace your steps it will hit a certain paragraph and go no
>>>further up the file.  In other words, my ability to jump from section
>>>to section is very unpredictable.
>
>>>I have turned off all highlighting.  I have gone into the Configuration
>>>menu and made word wrap the default for all files.  I have changed the
>>>environment set from HTML to Notepad replacement.  I have tinkered with
>>>the cursor shapes.  I have tried to find something in the JAWS
>>>configuration manager, at least with Insert + V.  Although my
>>>accessibility has increased, my ability to navigate is spotty.
>
>>>When using NoteTab Pro I have taken similar steps.  I didn't realize
>>>that particular program has a blind user mode.  Anyway, this too is 
>>>turned
>>on.
>
>>>I'd like to think I'm somewhat advanced in my ability to make JAWS work
>>>with other programs.  But, so far, no joy.  I may try out Boxer or
>>>Crimson Editor, but I feel hesitant to budge from UltraEdit and NoteTab
>>>before determining something is just not computing well and can't be
>>resolved.
>
>>>Thank you so much for all your assistance.
>
>>>Joe Orozco
>
>>>"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James 
>>>M.
>>>Barrie
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 11:50 AM
>>>To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] UltraEdit
>
>>>Joe,
>
>>>I think that keeping this on the list here is of value because others
>>>may have thoughts.  There was one response on PROGRAM-L who uses
>>>UltraEdit 11 with JFW 9 and 10 and says he has not had the problems you
>>>are having.  I tend to doubt that there have been changes from V11 to
>>>V14 that should add problems, but do I recall that you were using an
>>>earlier version of JFW?  It could be that cursor tracking has improved.
>>>I don't see any advantage is looking for the version Lloyd is running
>>>because there were some problems with menus as I recall, and Lloyd
>>>mentioned the option to select the classic menus.  This problem was
>>>fixed to my knowledge in version 11 and menus have remained solid for
>>>me ever since.  I have not noticed any problems or adjustments related
>>>to cursor tracking since with Window-Eyes.  If you decide on one of
>>>these editors and continue to have problems, there are some "caret"
>>>options within JFW that might be adjusted to give you better results.
>>>However, I don't think you want to be starting with that for multiple
>>>editors.  I do not know if you plan on taking advantage of syntax
>>>highlighting which automatically shows different elements of a
>>>programming language in different colors or not.  I have not used that
>>>functionality and turned it off figuring that changing colors might
>>>provide greater opportunity for a screen reader to lock on a certain
>>>color.  This may not have been a problem at all, I don't know.  I also
>>>think that there might be an option in UltraEdit that highlights the
>>>entire current line to make it stand out visually.  I turned it off for 
>>>the
>>same reason, as I recall, but I did so to avoid potential problems and not
>>because it actually caused any.
>>>I'll look to see if I can find that option.  Since I've been using this
>>>program for a few years, at least since version 9 and possibly before,
>>>it is hard to remember the cumulative changes I may have made.
>
>>>I do not remember the details, but it seems to me that EdSharp is
>>>written in a high-level language that could affect its speed.  Like
>>>you, I like quick response and such so it probably makes sense for you
>>>to continue pursuing this.  For the short term, as mentioned before, I
>>>would concentrate on the editor's functionality and basic navigation,
>>>avoiding functionality supplied by JFW scripts, as I suspect is the
>>>Next Paragraph key.  These kinds of things can most likely be worked out
>>after you have settled on an editor.
>>>If you can help me understand problems you still have with UltraEdit, I
>>>can try to make additional suggestions.
>
>>>Best regards,
>
>>>Steve Jacobson
>
>>>On Wed, 14 Jan 2009 11:01:55 -0500, Joe Orozco wrote:
>
>>>>Steve,
>
>>>>On the contrary, I like to know my options.  It's been firmly
>>>>established that EdSharp is not a bad program, but that should not
>>>>exclude other packages with a range of features that give EdSharp
>>>>competition.  As I've said, the speed is an issue for me.  This is
>>>>easily overlooked, but the menu of accessories is sometimes put on the
>>>>spot when other programs appear to have a competitive interface and
>>>capacity.
>
>>>>For my purposes, I need a robust text editor with a decent HTML
>>>>capacity.  I spend about equal time manipulating both areas, and I
>>>>don't mind spending the money if it means a central program with the
>>>>ability to perform well in both environments.  I made the investment
>>>>on DreamWeaver, and while I would rely on this mammoth program to
>>>>design larger projects, I'm interested in a solid NotePad replacement
>>>>that can be exercised for daily tasks that do not require extravagant
>>>>bells and whistles.  Besides, I believe in my own capacity to do
>>>>things by hand even if it takes a little longer.  Anyway, this is all
>>>>to give you a sense
>>>of what I'm trying to do with the program.
>
>>>>Unfortunately, I did not find an earlier version of UltraEdit on
>>>>Download.com.  I wonder if reverting to Lloyd's version 10 might do me
>>>>good, but I am convinced there is a way to make the thing work.  And
>>>>like you, I believe the problem is squarely with JAWS.
>
>>>>Anyway, I'll keep you posted, and hope you'll do the same.
>
>>>>Best,
>
>>>>Joe Orozco
>
>>>>"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity."--James
>>M.
>>>>Barrie
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:49 PM
>>>>To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
>>>>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] UltraEdit
>
>>>>Joe,
>
>>>>One of the reasons that Jamal wrote EdSharp was so that people could
>>>>avoid the kind of problems you are going through.  Generally, I think
>>>>he did a good job.  It isn't easy, though, to be both an expert in
>>>>accessibility and an expert in text editing, especially as
>>>>environments change.  Still he deserves credit, and if you find you
>>>>run into trouble, EdSharp isn't a bad fallback.  I would have thought
>>>>twice about suggesting this little side-trip if I knew this was going
>>>>to cause
>>>the trouble it has caused you.
>
>>>>I am not certain, but I believe that the messages you are getting
>>>>regarding the next paragraph is coming from a JFW script.  My guess is
>>>>that this could be worked out by altering something within UltraEdit
>>>>and NoteTab, or by altering something in the JFW script itself.  Some
>>>>editors have a "next paragraph" key and some do not.  The script can
>>>>be written to use the editor's next paragraph key or it can move the
>>>>cursor itself and determin where the paragraph boundary is.  If it
>>>>uses the editor's keystrokes and they either behave differently or the
>>>>same keystrokes do different things, you will get unusual responses.
>>>>Also, if you are moving by paragraph in text, you will want to turn
>>>>word wrapping on.  This does not add line breaks permanently to the
>>>>document, but it could make a difference when a screen reader is
>>>>trying to
>>>read a paragraph.  It insures all text is on the screen.
>>>>You can toggle word wrap on and off with CONTROL-W, or you can check
>>>>and change its status on the Edit Menu with the "Toggle Word Wrap"
>>>>option.  It is near the bottom of a long list, so you can get there
>>>>more quickly using the UP ARROW after bringing up the Edit menu.
>
>>>>I would urge you to start out just exploring the editors you try at
>>>>their basic navigation to see if they offer what you need.
>>>>You can't really judge any editor by how it reacts to JFW scripts not
>>>>written for it.  As I understand it, that is partly why Jamal
>>>>incorporates his HOMER scripts into the distributions of his products
>>>>so he has control over both.  That makes a lot of sense.
>
>>>>I could do a lot more with Window-Eyes than I do with UltraEdit, but
>>>>all I have done is to assign a key to read the part of the status line
>>>>that provides the line and column number in the document.  If I were
>>>>more heavily into HTML, I might find it necessary to do more, though.
>
>>>>I'm glad to try to offer more suggestions if you are interested, on or
>>>>off list, as long as you understand that I am not doing so because I
>>>>think UltraEdit is right for everyone nor am I saying one shouldn't
>>>>use
>>>EdSharp.
>>>>I just think that if one is going to do some serious text editing,
>>>>it's good to know what is out there before making a decision just as
>>>>you seem to be doing.
>
>>>>Best regards,
>
>>>>Steve Jacobson
>
>>>>On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 21:15:41 -0500, Joe Orozco wrote:
>
>>>>>Steve,
>
>>>>>I'm continuing the thread on list in case it benefits anyone else,
>>>>>but if folks are getting tired of it, let me know.
>
>>>>>I found the settings you outlined in your last message.  Neither
>>>>>helped, but I did turn off the Ruler off the View menu, which I'd
>>>>previously neglected.
>>>>>Anyway, we've made some progress.  Now I can navigate the document
>>>>>using the arrows; however, I appear to be limited to this.  Jumping
>>>>>paragraph to paragraph produces random jumps and repeats.  Or, I get
>>>>>a suggestion to maximize the window because the block is too large.
>>>>>I maximize, but again the results are sketchy.
>
>>>>>Now, we could chalk it up to a problem with UltraEdit; however, the
>>>>>same thing appears to be happening with NoteTab Pro.  I switched back
>>>>>from JAWS 10 to JAWS 7.1, and the results are the same.  Could it
>>>>>have anything at all to do with the fact that both packages are being
>>>>>used on a
>>>>trial basis?
>
>>>>>Also, how does one utilize the spell-check function on either package?
>
>>>>>Thanks for patiently walking me through this strange behavior.  I
>>>>>know it must have something to do with JAWS, but ironically, EdSharp
>>>>>seems to be working just fine.  My only beef with this program is
>>>>>that it is slower than I would like it to behave.
>
>>>>>Any additional thoughts and/or suggestions would be appreciated.
>>>>>Thank
>>>>you.
>
>>>>>Joe Orozco
>
>>>>>"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for
>>>>>humanity."--James
>>>M.
>>>>>Barrie
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 5:19 PM
>>>>>To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] UltraEdit
>
>>>>>Joe,
>
>>>>>Let's try to get you to the cursor options before you give up because
>>>>>they are there but not real obvious.  I believe it is likely that
>>>>>something there will help.  You JFW users really should bug Freedom
>>>>>Scientific because JFW seems more sensitive to cursor shapes than
>>>>>does Window-Eyes.  I have noticed this with 3270 emulation as well.
>
>>>>>Go to the "Advanced menu, and press ENGER on Configuration.  You are
>>>>>now in a sort of huge tree view with a number of sections.  Each
>>>>>section starts with an "advanced item if you were to DOWN ARROW
>>>>>through it, but don't do that.  If you press TAB, you should be in an
>>>>>edit
>>>box.
>>>>>This feature lets you search for specific options.  If you type in
>>>>>the word "cursor" and then press the "GO" button which is the next
>>>>>thing in the tab order, you should find yourself in the "cursor" 
>>>>>options.
>>>>>The first option is a pair of radio check boxes that lets you choose
>>>>>between a vertical bar or underscore for the "Normal cursor/caret".
>>>>>This is the one that is used in INSERT mode and is usually being used.
>>>>>You might want to change this to see if it makes a difference.
>
>>>>>tabbing to the next option lets you decide what you want the cursor
>>>>>to look like in overstrike mode.  A couple of options involve block
>>>>>and inverse cursors and I have found JFW to sometimes have trouble
>>>>>with these.  I would set that option to force the normal cursor to be
>>>>>used so you have fewer variables.
>
>>>>>Check this out and let me know what happens.  I am happy enough with
>>>>>this program that I will go ahead and ask if anybody on a programming
>>>>>list I am subscribed to knows what the key here is.  Obviously, this
>>>>>is only worth so much time for you and I realize that, but I think it
>>>>>is likely that there is something pretty simple that we are missing
>>>>>so far and this seems the most likely.
>
>>>>>On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:11:07 -0500, Joe Orozco wrote:
>
>>>>>>Steve,
>
>>>>>>I'm afraid I have continued to have no success with UltraEditor.  I
>>>>>>unchecked everything on the View Toolbars except Main.  JFW began
>>>>>>reading one line at a time, but it would only read the current line
>>>>>>and then get stuck on that line.  I went to Tools/Configuration, but
>>>>>>all I have found there is Command Line, Browse and nothing that
>>>>>>would indicate a menu.  I went to the option that just says
>>>>>>Configure but found nothing with a cursor option.  It's frustrating
>>>>>>because the program appears to have a lot of what I'm looking for,
>>>>>>though I suppose I may need to look into this NoteTab Pro you
>>>>>>mentioned earlier.  Let me
>>>>>know if you have any other suggestions.
>
>>>>>>Best,
>
>>>>>>Joe Orozco
>
>>>>>>"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for
>>>>>>humanity."--James
>>>>M.
>>>>>>Barrie
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>>>>>>Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 11:29 AM
>>>>>>To: NFBCS; NFB-Web
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] UltraEdit
>
>>>>>>Joe,
>
>>>>>>I am using UltraEdit 14.10 and also used 14.0 with Window-Eyes and
>>>>>>have not had the problem you are having.
>>>>>>However, it is my understanding that people with JFW are using it as
>>>well.
>>>>>>I can make several suggestions, though.
>
>>>>>>First, go to the view menu and uncheck all extras on the screen.
>>>>>>These are like other view menus where you press ENTER and you leave
>>>>>>the menu altogether but the status of the given item has been changed.
>>>>>>Most of these will be in the views/lists submenu.  I am not saying
>>>>>>you can't have any of these on, only that at this point we don't
>>>>>>know which might be causing you problems.  Second, see if you get
>>>>>>different results by pressing INSERT changing from INSERT mode to
>>>overtype mode.
>>>>>>This changes the cursor.  If JFW tracks the overtype cursor but not
>>>>>>the INSERT cursor, you can change the appearance of the cursor on
>>>>>>the Tools/Configuration menu.  This is a very large menu, and you
>>>>>>can type "cursor" into the "navigate" edit box and you will be taken
>>>>>>right
>>>there.
>
>>>>>>Given the problem that someone else mentioned about UltraEdit adding
>>>>>>characters and the problems you are having, you could also check out
>>>>>>NoteTab Pro at
>
>>>>>>http://www.notetab.com
>
>>>>>>because that is another very good alternative.  I switched from that
>>>>>>to UltraEdit for reasons unrelated to HTML, but you might have
>>>>>>better luck there.  When I switched, I didn't like the user
>>>>>>interface of NoteTab as well as UltraEdit's.
>
>>>>>>I would definitely urge you to find and successfully use at least
>>>>>>one mainstream editor to try just so you get a feel for the features
>>>>>>that are out there and what the accessibility issues are.  Also,
>>>>>>certainly contact Jamal as suggested because he may either not be
>>>>>>aware of the problem you had or he may already have a workaround.
>>>>>>Let me know if you have any luck with UltraEdit or if you have any
>>questions.
>
>>>>>>Best regards,
>
>>>>>>Steve Jacobson
>
>>>>>>On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:04:57 -0500, Joe Orozco wrote:
>
>>>>>>>Hello,
>
>>>>>>>I downloaded the recent version of UltraEdit, 14.0.  Unfortunately,
>>>>>>>I can't get JAWS to read what I have typed into the file.  Is there
>>>>>>>a setting I can check or uncheck to make the text accessible, or
>>>>>>>might this be a glitch of the new version?  Everything else appears
>>>>>>>to be accessible.  I have not yet given up on EdSharp, but I
>>>>>>>thought I'd try out another text editor, just in case.
>
>>>>>>>Joe Orozco
>
>>>>>>>"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for
>>>>>>>humanity."--James
>>>>>M.
>>>>>>>Barrie
>
>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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