[nfbcs] Open Office accessibility

Thu May 28 14:00:20 UTC 2009

Fantastic response. Thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 3:11 PM
To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
Cc: brett.winchester at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Open Office accessibility

Brett,

I'm leaving this on the list so that those more knowledgeable than I can
make correctsions or update some of this information.  By it's nature,
the answer has to be long.

As I understand it, Open Office is written at least in part in the Java
programming language.  The advantage of Java is that it is designed to
work on different platforms or types of computer systems.  It does this
partly by supplying a Java-VM that handles much of the running of Java
code.  The downside of this is that much of what Java code does is not
using native Windows controls such as buttons, dialogs, and the like.
This means that screen readers don't interact well with Java
applications.  There are even cases where text is actually displayed
within the Java VM so Windows does not always even see the text but
rather a picture of the Java window leaving screen readers more or less
speechless.  Sometimes one can manage to use a Java application with the
keys that control the mouse, the JAWS cursor in JFW or the Mounse
Pointer keys in Window-Eyes.

A significant effort was made to make Java applications accessible.  It
involved using specific java controls that had accessibility build into
them.  Since it was felt that MSAA didn't convey enough information, the
Windows Access Bridge was developed to be a bridge from the Java VM to
the screen reader to convey the accessible information.  The screen
reader also had to be modified to take information from the Windows
Access Bridge when it was available.  

It is my understanding that Open Office does not use enough of the Java
"Classes" that utilize accessibility to make it accessible.  However, to
be accessible, one would likely have to use the Windows Access Bridge
which is free.  To be clear, though, it is my understanding that this
still isn't enough.

My understanding is that there has been a new version of Open Office
being developed in which accessibility is being taken into account.  I
have no experience with it, though, and I do not know if it will depend
upon the Windows Access Bridge or whether another approach will be used.
There is another approach that causes java applications to make use of
controls within whatever operating system it is being run.  This makes
it a little easier to use more standard accessibility techniques.

Finally, recently an approach has been developed for Window-Eyes that
uses a different method of getting information from Java applications
that does not require the Windows Access Bridge but still functions as a
sort of bridge.  This is still relatively new, but I think it holds some
promise.  There have been some problems with Java applications where one
had to use a certain version of JFW and a certain version of the Windows
Access bridge to get them to work, and the same combination didn't work
the best for all applications.  Even the version of Java could enter
into the mix.  The Window-Eyes approach will likely suffer from some of
the same difficulties, but their approach might be easier to quickly
correct.

Some states have tried to move to the use of the Open Document Format
(ODF) which is produced by Open Office.  If you are investigating this
because of a similar move, care needs to be taken.  While there is
nothing about ODF that is in itself not accessible, there are some real
concerns if going to ODF also means moving to Open Office.  To have
blind employees in a state use different software to generate ODF
documents than the rest of the state's employees is something I believe
should be avoided.  Let me know if more needs to be said about this.  We
got into this some in Massachusetts a couple of years ago and here in
Minnesota as well.  
Yet, I have some confidence that we will see Open Office more accessible
in the future.  Maybe someone else on this list knows more about the
current status of the new version and can comment.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Wed, 27 May 2009 10:27:50 -0600, Brett Winches wrote:

>Tell me about the Windows access Bridge Steve, off list if needed.
Please also 	cc my personal as above. 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:32 PM
>To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Open Office accessibility

>Nancy,

>Are you talking about the new beta version or the older version of Open

>Office?  Are you using the Windows Access Bridge?  My understanding was

>that the older
version used Java and that it did not support the classes that could be
used by the Windows Access Bridge.  I am less certain of what the new
version that I thought was still in beta uses or requires.

>On Tue, 26 May 2009 21:15:12 -0500, Nancy Coffman wrote:

>>In my experience, the spelling checker and some dialog boxes don't 
>>work with JAWS.  They may work with NVIDEA or thunder well enough for
your use.

>>Nancy Coffman
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Brett Winches" <Brett.Winches at icbvi.idaho.gov>
>>To: "NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:12 AM
>>Subject: [nfbcs] Open Office accessibility

>>> Anyone have feedback on this one please?
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