[nfbcs] Independence with a Price Tag

Fri Feb 5 13:36:59 UTC 2010

I wasn't approaching it in darwinistic terms as you put it, although I can 
see how you might slant it that way.  I am just saying that when I was the 
age of college and grad school and job hunting, I found that not only did I 
appreciate the technology more, but I also found that people seemed to treat 
me as more approachable because I went ahead and did things for myself.  Now 
I'm the first to say that sometimes that is not possible.  My family was 
very much into education and so I was geared to be a good student.  I also 
hated fitting the stereotype of the disabled person who used thousands of 
dollars of government money to get a job in a government office. (I may have 
to eat those words.  People in government offices do some excellent work.) 
I went out of my way to major in something totally different and succeed in 
it, and graduated and got a good job where I worked for many years.  (Now 
I'm not working, and fitting more of the stereotype, I'm afraid, but that 
wasn't for vision's sake.  I have other physical disabilities.)
Anyway, you say there is something to be said for appreciating the adaptive 
aids more when you buy them, but that "only goes so far".  Actually, I 
believe it does go very far.  I think the dilemma comes when there is 
someone from a middle-income family who is supportive of their blind child's 
development, wonders how to approach buying something for their child that 
could be paid for by the government if they filled out all kinds of forms 
saying the child is pathetically incapable of anything without this 
technology, and waited for months to get it.  Should they do it? My family 
did -- and I paid my mother back for half the amount by getting a summer 
job, using my cctv that she had bought.  The first cctv I paid for in a 
roundabout way -- in high school I had a set of choir risers collapse on me 
and break my legs. It was the school's fault as they knew I was in music 
classes but didn't warn me of the danger, although there was a print sign 
there that I could not read.  The school's lawyer came by and asked how much 
we wanted, and my mother, who was one of those meek widows who didn't like 
litigating anything, only asked for a small amount, and I said "That's a 
down payment on a cctv." The lawyer asked "how much is a cctv".  Upshot, the 
school bought me one, and were happy to be let off the hook so easily.
So much for that.
Well, I'm sorry for the bio.  I think everyone has different background, 
needs and family support of their blind children, and beliefs about when to 
accept a gift.  As I mentioned I at least where I grew up, if the government 
paid for an expensive piece of adaptive equipment, the equipment was not 
yours but theirs, and you could not leave the state with it without 
permission.
But I am grateful that the government grants were there when I needed 
them --
 I took advantage of it in school, when my scholarship ran out they paid my 
tuition and reader fees, and for a variety of reasons I got social security. 
But there is no one-size-fits-all for any individual as everyone has their 
own family background, constellation of disabilities, and talents to draw 
on.
I think that those who take a conservative approach to accepting government 
grants should have the freedom to state their views -- it doesn't mean I 
promote eliminating the government programs -- it just means that from a 
personal standpoint, as well as a national one, if people tried paying for 
things a little more everyone would benefit, including the people paying for 
their own equipment.
Have a great day.
--le

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John G. Heim" <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
To: "NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Independence with a Price Tag

I would really like to disabuse people of these social darwinistic
principles. There's nothing moral or practical about social darwinism. In
other words, there's nothing moral or practical in requiring blind people to
buy their own accessible devices.

The only legitimate reason to demand that blind people buy their own
accessible devices is that it may give them incentive to improve themselves.
If you give someone something, they are less likely to appreciate it. That
much is true but it only goes so far. I doubt that there is really a huge
problem in this country with blind people getting lazy because the
government bought them a speech synthesizer or note taker. You're not going
to see blind people saying, "Heck, now that I have this Pac Mate I have
every thing I could possibly want. So why should I bother going to school or
getting a job?"

When society helps the disabled, we all win. We are all better off because
of the laws that required builders to put accessible bathrooms in buildings
and to add wheelchair ramps and wide doors. People in wheelchairs are now
much, much more an integral part of our society than they were before the
laws requiring those things were passed. It "normalized" being in a
wheelchair. Now people in wheelchairs are just like everyone else. And our
society is much, much better for it.

Why should the government buy blind people accessible devices? Because it
works and its the right thing to do.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
To: "NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Independence with a Price Tag

> You know, I am of the opinion that if possible, and especially if a blind
> person has a job, that that person should try to purchase adaptive
> equipment
> him/herself rather than ask someone else to do it -- that is unless it is
> something like a $10000 braille display, but even then, that is less than
> a
> sighted person would spend on a car, and therefore assuming you are
> working,
> it shouldn't be impossible to buy.  And if you do buy it, you are free to
> move to another state and take it with you.  If the state buys it, it is
> actually their property.
> I agree wholeheartedly that the price tag for adaptive equipment is
> ridiculous.  But consider the expenses that most people have who are
> sighted -- they might have some other less apparent disability, or they
> may
> be supporting a large family plus some relatives, or they may just be
> normal
> persons who drive inexpensive cars because the luxury ones are too pricy.
> A braille display doesn't require gas and costs less than even a used car.
> Anyway, my latest "car" was the Book Sense.  It is pretty expensive for a
> glorified mp3 player, but it does what I need and is accessible.  In a
> perfect world everything would be accessible, but who ever heard of a
> perfect world?
> I'm going to get a lot of use out of this little gizmo.
> Anyway, I hope I don't ruffle too many feathers.  Even when I was a "poor
> student" I still bought my own cctv's.  This was before the ADA -- I
> didn't
> want a prospective employer to think they'd have to pay $3000 upfront for
> me
> to work for them. So I came with all the equipment I needed.  If the
> government and the employers are friendlier now and willing to buy
> equipment, that is great, but there is something to be said for
> independence, when you can get it.
> I do think the knfb reader was priced a little high to start with.  I
> bought
> it after it was out a year, and it was still over $2000 (if I remember
> correctly).  Since then it has come down to a cell phone app that runs on
> many phones and the software is sold separate from the phone.  I think the
> price should come down.  For one thing, there is competition in the market
> now.    And the knfb reader (I discovered one day) surprisingly doesn't
> distinguish case -- so if you snap a picture of a password, it can't tell
> you if the letters are capitalized.  I have been lobbying for this but
> have
> met with strong resistance from the developers.  But that's just my
> personal
> pet peeve.
> But if you want to join my bandwagon we can all lobby for a less expensive
> product that distinguishes upper and lowercase letters.
>
> Happy lobbying.
> --le
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Mike Freeman" <k7uij at panix.com>
> To: <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 5:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>
> Joe:
>
> You're crazy! (grin)
>
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Tuesday, Feb 2, 2010 21:24:32
> Subject: [nfbcs] Independence with a Price Tag
>
>>
>>
>> Dear list,
>>
>> I'm continuously appalled at the price tags associated with adaptive
>> technology.  While you're in college you might receive assistance from
>> your
>> rehab agency to purchase equipment.  You may get some assistance after
>> you
>> find a job, but inevitably there comes a point when the expense comes
>> directly from your own pocket.  I wonder how many people have had to
>> settle
>> for outdated technology because they simply cannot afford it.  But,
>> that's
>> the thing.  I'm only assuming there are tons of people who cannot afford
>> this technology.  I'd like to lead a campaign to call public attention to
>> this monopoly, and, I'd like to hear your thoughts on whether or not you
>> think me crazy.  If my assumption is wrong, I'll keep my views to myself.
>> If there is a high number of people unable to tap into emerging software
>> simply because they cannot pay for it, I'd like to hear from you.  I
>> understand the technology itself costs a lot of money to develop.  Yet,
>> it
>> seems more of the price boost is owed to extravagant government contracts
>> that allow the few players to charge something like $6,200 for a device
>> that, despite its best advertisements, does not perform completely on par
>> with its mainstream counterparts.
>>
>> At this time I have only a vague idea for a strategy.  Yet it's something
>> I'm willing to build up if the need can be clearly identified.
>>
>> Looking forward to your input,
>>
>> Joe Orozco
>>
>> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the
>> crowddd0-comMax Lucado
>>
>>
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>>
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