[nfbcs] Adaptive Technology and Your Pocketbook

Doug Lee dgl at dlee.org
Fri Feb 5 14:39:04 UTC 2010 

A not-so-well remembered, so it seems, screen reader for DOS, put out
by Grass Roots Computing, which I believe was run by Deborah Norling
many years ago.  I doubt I still have a copy, but a tape of the manual
may still exist in here somewhere.

On Fri, Feb 05, 2010 at 06:04:03AM -0800, Mike Freeman wrote:
Dave:

Er, um, what's Video Voice?

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hyde, David W. (ESC)" <david.hyde at wcbvi.k12.wi.us>
To: 'Ationfbnet NFBCS Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Date: Friday, Feb 5, 2010 5:55:15
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Adaptive Technology and Your Pocketbook

>
>
> This is an issue in which, all of us who use adaptive tech have a stake. As I said before, I too am interested in what we can do to make it more affordable for me (enlightened self interest) and for others. In the interest of developing a solution, or range of solutions, I think many of us would appreciate an eye to the tone of the posts. It is a volatile issue. I don't always agree With John, or with Joe. I hope we will all stop short of making assumptions about, or casting aspersions upon what or why any of us take a particular stance.
> 
> For the best behaved member of the list, I just might have a free copy of Outspoken, or for the PC users, Video Voice.  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 7:19 PM
> To: 'Ationfbnet NFBCS Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Adaptive Technology and Your Pocketbook
> 
> John,
> 
> You're quite the little ray of sunshine, aren't you?
> 
> Competition is not the answer, because as long as there is a small group of players, neither one will blink and drop prices to get more customers.  Why should a company drop prices if they can get away with staying in the same general neighborhood as the others?  This is not exactly a phenomenon limited to the blindness market.  It's simple enterprise.
> 
> Freedom Scientific is not losing customers to Apple, because the PC is still dominant.  People have certainly migrated to the Mac, and there are benefits to purchasing a computer that comes talking out of the box.  Yet, the average consumer will be hard pressed to learn a new operating system for the sake of a built-in screen reader that is still growing and whose overall platform is still inferior to the compatibility of the PC.  I'm not bashing Apple.  On the contrary, I applaud their work, but don't allow your own computer preferences to make you assume your views are shared by the majority of consumers, blind or sighted.
> 
> And, no, I think that while some people will move over to less expensive options like NVDA, people ultimately know that the accessibility of these choices does not rival the accessibility of JAWS and Window Eyes.  Talk to David Andrews who pointed out that the introduction of these products can actually hurt the adaptive industry.
> 
> I'm not looking for a JAWS alternative.  I don't care for the price associated with purchasing new upgrades, but for now it's what I have to pay to get the accessibility I need.  Yet, you assume this is a self-motivated campaign designed to air out my own grievances.  Believe it or not, I care about people without the means to buy their own technology.  In today's economy there's no telling when I find myself in the same position to be unable to buy what I need to get by.
> 
> It's not a matter of ethics when you compare the cost of a mainstream product to the astronomical cost of an adaptive one.  I think this is the strategy of an informed consumer.  Voting with my dollars will hardly put a dent in what is already at least a $30 million sales operation in the case of Freedom Scientific, according to public records, and that's only an estimate.  WAFRA Partners only purchases companies that generate a minimum revenue of $20 million.  That too is public record.  I could be stupid and assume my refusing to pay $260 for a JAWS upgrade will make them shake their heads and think, "wow, you know, maybe I should bring down prices."
> Seriously, don't be delusional.
> 
> And, don't be a naysayer.  You have no idea how the campaign will evolve.
> If people don't step up to the plate, it won't even happen, because ultimately I am only interested in helping people who want to try to help themselves.  You don't even know how the companies will respond, because until there is reason to believe otherwise, we can only hope that what is achieved is a true compromise that does not deprive companies of the funds necessary to step up development and does not bar consumers from taking advantage of all the technology.  What you do know is that whatever benefits are achieved from our little group of diverse professionals are also going to benefit you.  Don't sit there and throw up objections to something good that could happen without your raising a finger.
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> Joe Orozco
> 
> "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the crowddd0-comMax Lucado 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G. Heim
> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 5:55 PM
> To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Adaptive Technology and Your Pocketbook
> 
> I can't figure out what you think a campaign can do that competition isn't already doing.
> 
> Don't you think that Freedom Scientific knows its losing customers to Apple and voiceover? Not to mention nvda, orca, and system access? 
> Don't you think
> FS, GW Micro, and Humanware are already doing as much as they can to keep their prices low in order to sell more products than their competitors? I really think that if you went to FS and said that you'd really like them to lower the price of the Pac Mate, they'd say that they only wish they could so that they could out sell GWM and Humanware.
> 
> I mean, if you don't like Freedom Scientific's pricing structure, buy Window-eyes instead. Or buy a Mac and use voiceOver. That's what I did. In fact, I told FS that. I actually called the sales number at FS, asked how much it would cost to upgrade jaws and when they said like a million dollars
> (whatever) I told them that I was going to buy a Macintosh. And I did.  I'm still using an old version of jaws at work but I will probably never buy another jaws license.
> 
> Anyway, I just don't see what a campaign can do that voting with your dollars can't do much better.
> 
> Besides, I think its unethical to accuse a company of gouging its customers without evidence. ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Orozco" <jsorozco at gmail.com>
> To: "'Ationfbnet NFBCS Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>; "'Ationfb Webmaster's List'" <nfb-web at nfbnet.org>; "'Discussion list for NABSEANational Alliance of Blind Students.'" <nabs at acb.org>; "'The PAC Mate User List'" 
> <pmlist at pacmategear.com>; <gw-notetaker at gwmicro.com>; "'Braillenote'" 
> <braillenote at list.humanware.com>; "'nfb-texas members'" 
> <members at nfb-texas.org>; <ATCNFB at yahoogroups.com>; "'Arizona Students'" 
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> Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 2:21 PM
> Subject: [nfbcs] Adaptive Technology and Your Pocketbook
> 
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > Over the past couple days I have engaged a discussion on several lists 
> > concerning the price of adaptive technology.  There are
> varying views on
> > whether or not these prices are fair, and there appears to be
> interest in
> > creating a campaign to address the issue.  If you are interested in 
> > lending your views or your support, please e-mail me at the address
> below.  This
> > would be preferable to a prolonged discussion across multiple lists. 
> > Please
> > e-mail anyone you feel would be interested in participating,
> and please
> > especially help us find representatives from the leading adaptive 
> > technology companies.  We are not interested in creating a landscape 
> > of
> corporations
> > versus consumers.  At this time there is no evidence
> suggesting adaptive
> > technology companies are not willing to discuss our concerns, and 
> > preliminary feedback on the issue mostly agrees that we
> should find a plan
> > that takes into account the real cost of production and the
> impact to a
> > consumer's personal finances.  We do not know if the answer
> lies in lower
> > prices, payment plans or philanthropic programs to help
> offset the cost of
> > this technology, but we will not find answers if we do not
> hear from you.
> >
> > If you are interested in participating in a working group,
> please e-mail 
> > me
> > at:
> >
> > jsorozco at gmail.com
> >
> > Thank you in advance,
> >
> > Joe Orozco
> >
> > "A man who wants to lead the orchestra must turn his back on the 
> > crowddd0-comMax Lucado
> >
> >
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> >
> >
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> 
> 
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-- 
Doug Lee                 dgl at dlee.org                http://www.dlee.org
SSB BART Group           doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com   http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
"Characters live to be noticed. People with character notice how
they live." -- Nancy Moser

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