[nfbcs] [nabs-l] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac

Thu May 13 21:06:54 UTC 2010

If they want you to consider changing, maybe that ought to be part of the transition - an extended time to evaluate the product and then a report from you to your management saying either this will work or it won't and the reasons. I know first-hand that transitioning is hard and that not using what everyone else uses also has significant disadvantages.

Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 1:04 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'; 'NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] [nabs-l] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac

Hi Steve,

I am the only PC user in our office.  I get made fun of all the time for not being one of the cool kids.  Aside from a worthy learning curve, I have not seriously made a change up to this point because:

1. JAWS may have its quirks, but I have found more than 90 percent of the applications I use are more than 90 percent accessible.  Those applications that are not very accessible straight out of the download I have usually found a script or two to rectify the issue.  I am worried that with a built-in screen reader I am limited to what the manufacturer deems a core essential.  Once I teach myself how to script I imagine I'll be able to extend JAWS beyond its current ability.

2. I have major beef with Freedom Scientific, but I appreciate the updates between major upgrades to address bugs.  Updates in Mac do not necessarily mean updates in Voiceover.

3. Price.  With Apple you really are tied to a limited variety of laptops.
With a PC you can typically shop around and grab a decent system for well below the Mac price range.

Now, as my exploration continues I may find these points are minor or maybe even non-existent.  The Mac Book Pro I handled did not have the latest update, and so perhaps some of my less favorable observations would have been cleared up, and there is also the matter of the length of time I had to play with the technology.  You're not going to fall in love with another operating system in one day.  For now I can only say it was most definitely not love at first sight.

MS Office is currently not accessible with the Mac, though this is supposed to change later this year.  The same is true of Firefox.  I understand Google Docs are also supposed to be already accessible with Voiceover and Safari.  I can only offer that as hearsay as I did not even think to test this while I was in front of the laptop.

I'll write more as I continue exploring.  My only pointer up to this point is to find someone who can allow you to use the Mac at your own pace.  An Apple store is not the best environment to test out a system.

Best,

Joe

"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 11:51 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list; NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [nfbcs] Very Preliminary Impressions of the Mac

Joe,

This is good stuff, and I, for one, really appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences.  Do you know which version of the operating system you were using?  My understanding is that there have been improvements with respect to VoiceOver's method of handling check boxes and such in the latest version, I think 10.7, but don't know the details.

>From what I gather, web browsing on the MAC is significantly
enough different that it takes time to really understand how to deal with web pages effectively.  If I ever get the chance to really spend some time on the MAC, I would probably want to talk to some people experienced with the MAC to find out how they handle certain tasks.  I know that there are a few MAC users here as well and hope they chime in.  

Your point that MACs are different than PC's is a good one and I have found I have to be careful making assumptions.  For example, when my daughter got her MAC, she mentioned TextEdit.  I assumed that TextEdit was a text editor.  This seems like a reasonable assumption given the name, but as I'm sure you already know, it is not.  It is a reasonably powerful word processor that is included with the operating system.  As far as I can tell, it is a good deal more powerful than WordPad.  

What do your fellow employees use for word processing?  I am told that Open Office works reasonably well with VoiceOver but that Microsoft Word for the MAC does not.  

I also think that the issue of VoiceOver being included free is something potential buyers have to be careful of as a reason to choose a MAC over a PC.  It is included free, there is no doubt of that, and Apple should be commended for what they are doing.  However, it appears to me that you still pay a good deal more for a MAC than a PC, and while buying a screen reader for a PC will certainly wipe out the difference, the total cost of each becomes less of an issue in my opinion.  
You would be very hard pressed to buy a PC with JFW without paying a good deal more than you would pay for a MAC, but buying a PC with one of the less expensive screen readers might be cheaper in some cases and the accessibility you get could be similar to what you get with VoiceOver.  One really needs to decide if their interests and/or their environment make using a MAC the way to go.  Being able to make such a choice is a very positive step, though, and I am not minimizing that in the least.  It is very significant that we now have this option.

Thanks again for sharing this information.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Thu, 13 May 2010 10:23:38 -0400, Joe Orozco wrote:

>Hello,

>Earlier this week I had the privilege of handling a Mac Book
Pro, iPad and
>iPhone, none of which I'd previously touched before.  These
impressions are
>very preliminary and full of bias from a PC user.

>Mac Book Pro:

>I handled a 13-inch model, and the keyboard was fantastic.  I
don't know
>that I would jump at the opportunity to switch from my current Dell 
>Latitude, but if I had no other choice, the Mac Book Pro would not be a 
>disappointment in the slightest.  Very solid hardware and
sleek design.  I
>have long fingers, and the keyboard was sufficiently comfortable.

>Voiceover:

>The speech is excellent.  It is very human-sounding and did
not distort with
>faster speeds.  Perhaps because the screen reader is built into the 
>operating system, I did not hear any pauses or experience too
many delays in
>accessing what I needed.  Where my admiration fell short was
in the logic of
>the command structure.  When navigating in Safari, for
example, I used the
>VO keys plus Left and Right arrows to navigate hyperlink by
hyperlink.  I
>understand there are different modes to navigate web pages,
but I somehow
>enjoy the JAWS capacity to jump in different blocks with
greater flexibility
>without the need to make adjustments.  I did not much care for
having to
>copy and paste content from the iWorks processor to the text
processor to be
>able to tell certain formatting attributes.  Finally, I was not keen on 
>relying on VO keys as the central point to make what appeared to be the 
>majority of all keystrokes.  On a PC I suppose it is enjoyable
to interact
>more with a larger percentage of my keyboard.  Certain
keystrokes on the Mac
>Book Pro felt awkward to perform with one hand.  Activating
check boxes and
>selecting items from lists was awkward.

>iPad:

>I wasn't a fan.  The Kindle is more compact, boasts a physical
keyboard and
>to me just seems much more comfortable.  Both the iPad and
iPhone use the
>same screen reader the Victor Reader Stream uses.  
Disappointing.  I somehow
>thought these two products also used the Alex voice, but
perhaps this is
>simply processor capacity?  To me the iPad felt like a netbook
with a touch
>screen.  I did not much care for connecting a bluetooth
keyboard for more
>comfortable typing.  Portability seems to me the main driving
motivator to
>get an iPad, and as far as portability is concerned, the iPad fell very 
>short of my expectations.

>iPhone:

>I sucked at using it in the very short length of time I had to
play with it.
>Yet, someone demonstrated how she could easily navigate and
interact with
>e-mail.  I don't know that I appreciated the size of the
device, think the
>Samsung Moment running Android feels more comfortable in my
hand.  Yet, the
>iPhone very clearly beats the Android seven ways to Sunday in terms of 
>accessibility.  If you can figure out the touch screen, it may
very well be
>golden.

>So there you are, very basic impressions.  I plan to continue
exploring the
>Mac alternative and hope other people contemplating a switch
will also share
>their experiences moving from a PC environment.  If any of
what I've written
>here is wrong or misleading, please correct me, because it may
well have
>been my own ignorance.  If you do play around with Mac products, just 
>remember it's true that Mac systems are no PC.  Accept the alternative 
>platform for what it is.

>Joe

>"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up
their sleeves,
>some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
> 

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