[nfbcs] FW: Idea for new Braille Display

[Mike Freeman]

Two thoughts:

(1) If you believe that a deformable material Braille display is just around 
the corner (hype notwithstanding), I have a bridge I'd be more than happy to 
sell you.  WE've heard this nonsense for a decade or more and nothing has 
come to fruition.  The "prototypes" I've seen aren't really even prototypes 
in that they don't ever have a working cell and are constructed merely to 
satisfy the need to show something so as to hornswaggle more development 
funds out of potential victims.  While I could be wrong and would be pleased 
if I were, I suspect that piezoelectric Braile cells are here for a good 
while yet.

(2) The problem of on-the-fly translation of technical symbols such as you 
envision is far from trivial.  Often, professors make up their own symbology 
as they go along.  Moreover, although Nemeth code is absolutely wonderful, 
it's not made for on-the-fly translation and requires (Dr. Nemeth's protests 
to the contrary notwithstanding) considerable judgment on the part of the 
Nemeth transcriber.

I'm afraid I agree with the person who said why go to all the trouble when 
the easiest and simplest solution is to have the student make arrangements 
with the professors as students have done for nigh on fifty years.

Mike Freeman

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Jolls" <majolls at cox.net>
To: "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 2:45 AM
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] FW: Idea for new Braille Display


> Hi ... a couple of comments on your reply ...
>
> First, what happens if the student was totally blind?  A copy of the
> PowerPoint wouldn't help him one bit.  Being able to receive it in Braille
> would allow the student to overcome this.
>
> Second, I like your idea of having a password that the student could 
> connect
> with ... with the instructor doing nothing.  That's what I had in mind ...
> the less the instructor has to do, the better.  Zero involvement by the
> instructor would be the best.
>
> Third ... yes, this idea will require that Braille cells can be delivered 
> at
> a low cost.  What I'm reading is a Braille cell the experts think they can
> deliver for $10 a cell by passing current through some sort of deformable
> material.  The current piezo-electric cell technology would be replaced by
> this deforming material.  When current is passed through the material
> contained in a small package, the material deforms and "pops the dot". 
> The
> experts claim this has been accomplished in a prototype and that a new 
> type
> of Braille display can be commercially produced in a couple of years.  I'm
> hoping this is the case, because without a replacement for the existing
> technology at $80 a cell, this idea is likely dead.
>
> Finally, another reply to my idea talked about having Apple Voice Over 
> send
> the wireless data to a device like I'm talking about.  The question in my
> mind is whether the student would receive an audible version of the
> presentation or whether a character by character representation would be
> received.  The common wisdom of educators is that receiving the material
> audibly is enough, but I disagree with that.  In technical subjects like
> math you need to see the exact syntax and symbols to truly understand the
> subject.  If VoiceOver is used, and if it delivers the information in an
> audible format, the student would lose information.  You simply don't get
> the same information audibly as you do with a tactile character by 
> character
> representation.  That's why Braille is so important.  You simply have to
> deliver the same information to the blind student that the normally 
> sighted
> student gets, otherwise I don't believe the blind student will gain the 
> same
> understanding.  That's why the "smart Braille display" is important.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of qubit
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 9:22 PM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] FW: Idea for new Braille Display
>
> Hi there --
> I did not see this posted in my copies of email from this list, so I 
> assume
> it got lost.
>
>>From what I gather, your idea is just getting the wireless info from
>>the
> instructor's laptop and receiving it on a smart notetaker.
> My comment is that since you already need to contact the instructor early 
> to
> get him/her to start up the server app to transmit the info, why not just
> ask for copies of the powerpoint presentation for you to follow along in?
> Granted this wouldn't help if the instructor decided to change the order 
> or
> content of things during class.  I'm just saying sometimes the solution is
> high tech and sometimes the old fashioned approach is just as good.
>
> However, one thing just occurred to me:
> perhaps Microsoft could put the smarts into powerpoint to provide a
> skype-like dial-in that would automatically connect if the student knew a
> password, so that the prof wouldn't need to do anything out of the 
> ordinary,
> but as many blind students as there are in or out of the classroom could
> dial in to listen to the lecture.
>
> Since I thought of that on the fly, i don't have a perfect definition 
> worked
> out, but it should be simple enough.
>
> Now, as for braille displays, I hope that these cheaper displays will come
> out soon.  I have been reading about them for more than a decade now, and
> some of them were tauted to be ready for production years ago, but we 
> never
> see them.
> There was one in particular over in Italy (or was it Spain) that could do
> not just braille but fairly good refreshable tactile graphics.  Something
> must have gone wrong because it has been years and it is not even talked
> about any more.
> I am wondering if the providers of expensive displays has a really good
> lobby to keep competition out of the market.
>
> Anyway, keep working on your notetaker idea.  I think it has merit.
> --le
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Jolls" <majolls at cox.net>
> To: <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 7:14 PM
> Subject: [nfbcs] FW: Idea for new Braille Display
>
>
> I sent this once, but it may not have made it to the list.  So, I'm 
> sending
> it again.
>
>
>
> This email is about an idea I have for a dual display Braille display /
> notetaker device.  See if you think the idea has any merit.
>
>
>
> Original message follows..
>
>
>
> <<<>>>
>
>
>
> The reason for this submission is that I have an idea . and I wanted to 
> run
> it by you all who are in the technical area to see what you thought . and
> see whether you thought it would be useful.  If enough people thought it 
> was
> a good idea, perhaps pursuing it would be a good thing.  I don't have all
> the technical details worked out .. far from it.  However, new technology
> starts with an idea.  So please read it and give me your thoughts.  Would
> something like this be worth pursuing?
>
>
>
> This is a rather lengthy email .. so please don't get discouraged with the
> length.  I hope you're excited when you read about my idea.
>
>
>
> I was thinking about sitting in classes . in high school .. in college .
> even taking training classes in the professional world.  I don't know 
> about
> you all, but I've been in situations where you tell the instructors that
> you're visually impaired and ask that they make accommodations for you. 
> In
> my case, I'm partially sighted, and I've asked the instructors . "when you
> turn the page, tell me the page you're on so I can turn the page and be on
> the correct page on my hard copy under my CCTV . that way I can follow 
> along
> more easily".  I've also asked instructors to do other things, such as 
> give
> me a printed copy of their notes before each class, and their comment is .
> "well you can get the notes from someone else" . and that's the end of it.
> Unfortunately, when it's technical material you're trying to absorb, and 
> you
> NEED to be able to see the material as the class is happening, not having
> the material in front of you sometimes means you don't get the information
> you need.  Perhaps they forget what you asked them to do because they've
> never been around a visually impaired person and they just don't remember,
> or perhaps they just don't know what to do or how to do it, and you end up
> getting no help at all.
>
>
>
> With that in mind, I was thinking . how can we get the information being
> presented at the same time the instructor is presenting it, and yet not 
> have
> to depend on the instructor giving the information to us personally (which
> they might forget) , and not have to depend on reading the board or 
> overhead
> (especially if we can't see it)?  And then this idea came to me...
>
>
>
> Have dual multi-line Braille displays in one unit.  Each multi-line 
> display
> could have . say a 4 line 40 cell display, plus its own Perkins style 
> input
> keys.  So then you have 2 4 line 40 cell displays plus 2 9-key Perkins 
> input
> devices on the same device.  Furthermore, have one of the multiple line
> Braille displays having a wireless connection that can receive information
> and display the received information upon it.
>
>
>
> Here's how it could be used ...
>
>
>
> One of the Braille display units could have a wireless receiver hooked up 
> to
> it.  Whatever the receiver gets, it stores it in a memory buffer, and
> displays the first X number of lines of data on the Braille display it's
> connected to.
>
>
>
> The other multi-line display would have its own 4 line display plus 
> Perkins
> 9 key input setup.  It wouldn't be wireless and would serve as a standard
> notetaker.
>
>
>
> The point to having the wirelessly driven display is that a presenter
> (teacher) would have all their class notes on a PC which had a 
> corresponding
> wireless transmitting device installed on the PC.  Every time the 
> presenter
> changed pages of his presentation (PowerPoint, Word, etc. )  the software 
> on
> his presenter PC would transmit the page digitally over a wireless device.
> I would guess that this software that transmitted the data would be built
> into the operating system so that the people at the education institution
> wouldn't have to do anything special to set up this capability.  They'd 
> just
> have to be aware that the software existed and they might only need to 
> turn
> it on  . or maybe just have it on all the time.  It's just there in the 
> O/S.
> Next, . what is transmitted by the presenters PC would drive the 
> wirelessly
> controlled Braille display so that the display would pick it up, store the
> page in its buffer, and then display that page (or at least the first N
> lines . depending on the capacity of the Braille device) on the Braille
> display.  Once received, the blind or partially sighted student could then
> peruse the information on the display, use page navigation commands to
> navigate the page or pages, etc.   This of course would demand that the
> instructor used a PC to present the class material, was presenting with a
> software package that the student's wireless device could receive and
> understand, the PC would have to be transmitting wirelessly, and the 
> student
> would have to be able to receive the wireless transmission.  The benefit 
> is
> that the student wouldn't have to be able to see the board . he or she 
> could
> read the presentation on his Braille display.  There wouldn't be 
> frustration
> because of an inability to get the information because the student can't 
> see
> the board.  You could probably even extend this idea to laptops if a 
> student
> had enough vision to see a laptop .  But if he or she couldn't, receiving 
> it
> in Braille would mean that a lack of vision wouldn't meant the student
> couldn't keep up with the class.  The student wouldn't have to be able to
> see to get the information.
>
>
>
> Of course this wouldn't solve the problem for EVERY class . there could be
> some classes where this might not solve the problem.
>
>
>
> It would of course mean that the standard for presentations in (at least)
> the high school and college environment  would DEMAND this type of
> presentation and a PC platform that would support the technology.  It 
> would
> be MANDATORY that this was a standard so that unless there were technical
> obstacles (such as in a chemistry course for example where the teacher is
> presenting an experiment that you just can't render on the device) the
> textual information could be delivered to the student.  If the platform 
> was
> an agreed standard, any blind student could get math,  English, other
> subjects as well (it might also mean the student . for technical subjects 
> .
> might need to know Nemeth).  If schools had to have this type of setup, 
> then
> the blind student would be able to get the presentation as the teacher
> talked about it . WITHOUT having to do much .. and they'd be able to "see
> what's on the board" . or  .. "on the overhead" . because they'd be
> receiving it on their Braille display at the same time the teacher is
> presenting one of the pages of their presentation.
>
>
>
> As the teacher moves through the pages of the presentation, the wireless
> display could change allowing the student to keep up.  Not only could the
> wirelessly driven display contain the current page, but with enough 
> memory,
> it could store  all the pages of the presentation . so that the student
> could capture the entire presentation (and save it) so that he or she had
> the entire presentation to go back to later without getting slowed down by
> manually taking Braille notes.
>
>
>
> The second Braille display would be used in a standard notetaker type of
> application, so that as the presentation is happening on the wirelessly
> driven display, they could be taking notes with the other display and 
> second
> Perkins input device hooked up to the second display . checking their 
> notes
> on the display . or just entering data on the other Perkins type 9 key
> input.
>
>
>
> Note that this type of device would DEMAND that you knew Braille so that 
> you
> could use the information being delivered.  And, using the device would
> DEMAND you knew the Perkins 9 key type input.  If you did have a notetaker
> with a QWERTY keyboard plus the 2 multi-line braille displays, the device
> might be too large and unwieldy to carry and use.  You could save a lot of
> space by just having the Perkins input method rather than QWERTY.  The
> Perkins 9 key input keys wouldn't take up that much room, so you could
> likely have two of these and the two displays (perhaps 4 lines of 40
> characters each), and the device (although a bit large) might be 
> manageable.
>
>
>
> Using this device might also be a good case for mandating that partially
> sighted students learn Braille.
>
>
>
> Now, this setup is dependent on getting the cost of the Braille display
> down.  I've been reading about new advances in this technology where they
> (universities doing development and research on new methods of rendering
> braille) claim they can produce a Braille cell for $10, rather than the
> current cost of $80.  Given that cost, if you had two 4 line 40 cell
> displays (160 characters each display) times 2 displays, then the cost 
> would
> be $3200 for the Braille . well under what a display in today's technology
> costs.  Heck, the 80 cell display I have at work cost $6000!!!
>
>
>
> There would also have to be a lot of technical questions answered such as
> what software would need to be incorporated in the operating system for 
> the
> presenters PC, and more technical questions about what software would 
> reside
> in the Braille device, how communication was carried out, etc. a LOT of
> questions answered.  So I realize there are a LOT of problems that would
> need to be solved.
>
>
>
> However, if we COULD do something like this, with 2 multi-line displays,
> enabling people that can't see the presentation visually to yet see it in
> Braille .. and take notes ... would that be worthwhile?  Does this sound
> like something that would help?  Would it be worth pursuing?
>
>
>
> I think Braille is a great tool, and I think this could help boost its use
> since it would provide a reason for knowing it.  Braille could be
> responsible for delivering the class materials to the students without
> having to make them bug their teachers who don't know what to do for their
> partially sighted and blind students anyway.
>
>
>
> Thanks for reading this lengthy email and please let me know your 
> thoughts.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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