[nfbcs] Looking into taking Microsoft Access

Sat Nov 13 03:59:55 UTC 2010

Hello again Steve, it's great to correspond with you again! I would love to
talk with Microsoft about this, but I haven't found a contact person who
deals with Accessibility issues. There is no support or email that I could
find on the www.microsoft.com/enable site. I tried looking on the Microsoft
Developer site or the MSDN where they have several blogs and articles about
Accessibility. I emailed someone who did one of the blogs, but my email got
bounced.
That is one of the reasons why I'm glad that Robert posted about Access
originally because I was going to post to this list because I haven't been
able to find any Accessibility information or tech support though I know
that the NFBCS has dealt with Microsoft in the past with our convention
presentations and other matters. I called the Answer Line at the NFB
Technology Center, but the person I spoke to didn't have any Microsoft
contact person for Accessibility, nor did Freedom Scientific when I asked,
and nor has any of the other blind computer people or organizations that I
have called. I contacted the folks who provided my equipment for work, the
Computer and Electronics Accommodation Program, the program that provides
Access Technology to many government agencies, and though the person I spoke
with agreed with me on the accessibility issues, he didn't have any contact
information either. Luckily, my boss and colleagues have been wonderful, but
I'm concerned that I need to find another accessible means of producing this
database if not with Access. I am trying to teach myself Visual Basic for
Access so that I could manually program the parts of Access that don't work.
Unfortunately, JAWS doesn't seem to work very well inside the Visual Basic
Environment for Access. I am going to installing Microsoft Office 2010 this
weekend to see if that will work better. I've downloaded demonstration
versions of Oracle 11G and its web component that is supposed to convert
Access databases into web based forms, as well as Microsoft SQAL Server. If
anyone has any other suggestions as to how to make Access behave for
queries, forms, and reports, or if there are other more useable databases
out there, I would be interested in hearing about them.
Thank you, again Steve,  for your message.

Best Regards,

Beth 

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Steve Jacobson
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 7:40 PM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Looking into taking Microsoft Access

Beth,

I have not had to use Access on the job that much, but from what I've seen I
agree that it is not that easy to use.  Have you addressed any of your 
difficulties with Microsoft?  Could anyone ever explain how microsoft had
addressed the missing command from the ribbon?  I know that one problem we 
are starting to see is that Microsoft is starting to use UI Automation
instead of or in addition to MSAA in their products and screen readers are
not taking 
advantage of it completely.  The fact is that very, very few of us are
apparently doing design work in Access.  When you add to the mix that
corporations 
upgrade slowly, the feedback we give to Microsoft is very slow in coming.
Access 2003 is commonly used where I work, for example, and Access 2010 is 
out so we're probably not going to get any big changes to 2007.  

Still, occasionally we find that there is a way of doing something in
Microsoft products that is not well documented or is there for another
reason so goes 
unnoticed.  You might also see if anyone can help on the blind programmer's
list.  If you don't have that address, I can dig it up.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 18:06:25 -0700, Beth Hatch wrote:

>Hello Joe, Robert and all,
>In my opinion, Microsoft Access is still being used, at least by bigger
>corporations, and where I work, the government. Access is part of the
>standard configuration for all of the computers on the Air Force base where
>I work and although I would love to use something other than Access to
build
>the databases I've been assigned to make for my job, it would take a lot of
>bureaucratic action and written justification to use any other product for
>making databases because all of our computers have Microsoft office 2007 as
>a part of their standard configuration.
>As a blind person, in my opinion, the accessibility of Access has gotten
>worse. I now have an open ticket with Freedom Scientific for some issues
>that I can't do independently such as putting controls like check boxes or
>combo boxes on a form for example. Access 2003 used to work a bit
>better--you could put controls in a form by bringing up a tool box using
the
>shift-control-b command where you could place the controls on a form and
set
>properties for them--but that command is no longer there as it was in
Access
>2003. When I spoke to Freedom Scientific about the problems I've been
having
>such as the above mentioned forms issue, as well as making queries and
>reports, I was told that "Microsoft fixed that problem with the ribbon." A
>response like that made me wonder if anyone at Freedom really tried to use
>Access 2007 with speech!! I think the screen reader vendors have made their
>products work with the most common denominator, they make sure you can
enter
>data into a form or table using Access, but not design forms, reports, or
>complicated queries as a blind person. My cynical side wants to think that
>perhaps these folks think blind people don't make databases, they only use
>them. I should say that my only experience with Access 2007 is with JAWS 11
>and 12, I haven't tried Window-eyes or any other screen readers with
Access.
>However, I've made a lot of phone calls and sent several email message to
>blind folks, and no one can seem to assist me with getting access to work
>with JAWS, or any other screen reader for that matter.
>So Robert, to answer your question, I might look into other database
>products such as File Maker that Joe had mentioned, Oracle, or Microsoft
>SQLL Server, or MY SQL which is an open source database product.  I'm
>looking into all of these to see if any of them will help me on the job
>since if I can make something work, I'm going to have to advocate to be
able
>to use it on the job instead of Access. I'm glad we are talking about this
>issue, since it personally effects my job, and I haven't been able to get
>any information from anyone with the exception of one technology vendor
here
>in New Mexico who spent a lot of time here helping me to try to make it
>work, and he also agreed with me concerning the lack of information  on how
>to make it work better in terms of Accessibility. If you check the
Microsoft
>Accessibility web site, all you'll find there are the keyboard shortcuts
and
>nothing more about how to make Access work for blind folks, but there is
>information for the rest of the MS Office 2007 product line since there are
>step by step accessibility tutorials on Word, Excel and PowerPoint,  but
not
>for Access--so apparently some people, those with Microsoft as well as
>access technology folks,  may feel blind folks don't need to worry about
>designing databases in Access.
>Sorry for the rant, I had meant to post something about this issue earlier,
>and Robert and Joe's message about it helped that process along.<smile>

>Beth 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Joe Orozco
>Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 5:07 PM
>To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Looking into taking Microsoft Access

>Is anyone using Access these days?  Please don't take this as me bashing
>your desire in the slightest, but I think Access is something of the
>red-headed step child in Office.  What about Filemaker Pro?  I'm just
>putting this out there to ensure you gauge all your options and learn
>something marketable.  If I'm wrong, please do feel free to correct me so
>I'll know better.

>Best,

>Joe

>"Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their sleeves,
>some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>[mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Jaquiss
>Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 6:29 PM
>To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
>Subject: [nfbcs] Looking into taking Microsoft Access

>Hello:

>     I am thinking about taking Microsoft Access 2007. I have 
>JAWS and a braille display. Any suggestions for good reference 
>materials would be appreciated. thank you.

>Regards,

>Robert
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