[nfbcs] FW: Idea for new Braille Display
qubit
lauraeaves at yahoo.com
Wed Nov 17 19:11:35 UTC 2010
I agree with this -- that it is easier to get material in advance and
listen and take notes than to worry about monitoring changing info on laptop
while trying to take notes.
The value of this technology would depend not so much on the technology as
to the type of course you are taking. I can think of some courses where
this would work and others where it would be a distraction.
One thing I was known for at school was that I would leave a recorder in
class, leave, and then pick it up at the end of class and listen to the
recording when I had copies of notes taken by a friend. One day the prof
came in and people were commenting on my recorder saying they all ought to
get recorders and set on their desks so the prof would be speaking to a room
full of recorders. The prof replied that since he really didn't have to be
there to deliver his lectures, he could start a video of the lecture and
leave, so the room would be full of machines. *smile*
Anyway, my point is that being prepared before class can take care of most
the problem. This may require getting something from the instructor, but I
still think that will always be better than coming to the lecture cold and
try to read a braille display -- of course all depending on the braille
display and the lecture and the instructor.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "NFB in Computer Science Mailing List" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] FW: Idea for new Braille Display
>Mike,
It is a good thing for us to think about how technology can help us and even
to think out of the box sometimes. Part of the challenge that we have is to
figure out both what we can do with existing technology and what we can
anticipate will happen with technology and be ready to leverage those
changes.
Ray Kurzweil has been particularly good at doing that, but even he doesn't
always succeed.
If there were a way to implement your idea as is, it would result in a
pretty neat system for blind students. However, I would suggest that this
may not be the
only way to reach the desired destination. I think that Mike Freeman is
right, that we just won't likely see cheaper braille displays soon. If you
think about it,
what you are suggesting would use the equivalent of eight 40-cell displays,
so even if the price dropped to half, the total cost would be substantial.
The second part of your idea is interesting. I wonder if it might not be
easier to try to build such a solution on some of the processes that are
already in place
for remote or on-line learning. Approaching the problem in that way could
reduce the cost by depending upon software and processes already in place
rather than depending on developing something new. This would also be an
approach that would seem less foreign to the instructor. There has been
some
experimenting with remotely sharing a desktop that has apparently worked for
blind people.
Having said all this, though, part of me again must admit to react somewhat
as Mike Freeman did. We would need a lot of work done on translation and
formatting, particularly where PowerPoint slides are concerned. Second,
even though I do not like to admit this, touch is less efficient than vision
in
detecting when something changes. Getting a new page of information is one
thing, but moving to a new slide where perhaps only a part of the slide
changes is another thing entirely. I see a problem in concentrating on
watching one's display, listening to the professor speak, and also taking
appropriate
notes, even if everything works well. I wonder if such a system would work
as well in practice as it might seem. Those who have used computers from a
young age may be able to deal with this complexity of input better than I,
though, so it would be interesting to hear the thoughts and even more, the
experiences of others. One thing I have observed at least for me is that it
is more effective for me to be concentrating on listening and taking notes
getting
whatever important documents I can get in advance than to try to listen,
take notes, andalso deal with changing information on my laptop controlled
by
someone else. That could be just me, though.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mike Jolls" <majolls at cox.net>
>> To: <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 7:14 PM
>> Subject: [nfbcs] FW: Idea for new Braille Display
>>
>>
>> I sent this once, but it may not have made it to the list. So, I'm
>> sending
>> it again.
>>
>>
>>
>> This email is about an idea I have for a dual display Braille display /
>> notetaker device. See if you think the idea has any merit.
>>
>>
>>
>> Original message follows..
>>
>>
>>
>> <<<>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The reason for this submission is that I have an idea . and I wanted to
>> run
>> it by you all who are in the technical area to see what you thought . and
>> see whether you thought it would be useful. If enough people thought it
>> was
>> a good idea, perhaps pursuing it would be a good thing. I don't have all
>> the technical details worked out .. far from it. However, new technology
>> starts with an idea. So please read it and give me your thoughts. Would
>> something like this be worth pursuing?
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a rather lengthy email .. so please don't get discouraged with
>> the
>> length. I hope you're excited when you read about my idea.
>>
>>
>>
>> I was thinking about sitting in classes . in high school .. in college .
>> even taking training classes in the professional world. I don't know
>> about
>> you all, but I've been in situations where you tell the instructors that
>> you're visually impaired and ask that they make accommodations for you.
>> In
>> my case, I'm partially sighted, and I've asked the instructors . "when
>> you
>> turn the page, tell me the page you're on so I can turn the page and be
>> on
>> the correct page on my hard copy under my CCTV . that way I can follow
>> along
>> more easily". I've also asked instructors to do other things, such as
>> give
>> me a printed copy of their notes before each class, and their comment is
>> .
>> "well you can get the notes from someone else" . and that's the end of
>> it.
>> Unfortunately, when it's technical material you're trying to absorb, and
>> you
>> NEED to be able to see the material as the class is happening, not having
>> the material in front of you sometimes means you don't get the
>> information
>> you need. Perhaps they forget what you asked them to do because they've
>> never been around a visually impaired person and they just don't
>> remember,
>> or perhaps they just don't know what to do or how to do it, and you end
>> up
>> getting no help at all.
>>
>>
>>
>> With that in mind, I was thinking . how can we get the information being
>> presented at the same time the instructor is presenting it, and yet not
>> have
>> to depend on the instructor giving the information to us personally
>> (which
>> they might forget) , and not have to depend on reading the board or
>> overhead
>> (especially if we can't see it)? And then this idea came to me...
>>
>>
>>
>> Have dual multi-line Braille displays in one unit. Each multi-line
>> display
>> could have . say a 4 line 40 cell display, plus its own Perkins style
>> input
>> keys. So then you have 2 4 line 40 cell displays plus 2 9-key Perkins
>> input
>> devices on the same device. Furthermore, have one of the multiple line
>> Braille displays having a wireless connection that can receive
>> information
>> and display the received information upon it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here's how it could be used ...
>>
>>
>>
>> One of the Braille display units could have a wireless receiver hooked up
>> to
>> it. Whatever the receiver gets, it stores it in a memory buffer, and
>> displays the first X number of lines of data on the Braille display it's
>> connected to.
>>
>>
>>
>> The other multi-line display would have its own 4 line display plus
>> Perkins
>> 9 key input setup. It wouldn't be wireless and would serve as a standard
>> notetaker.
>>
>>
>>
>> The point to having the wirelessly driven display is that a presenter
>> (teacher) would have all their class notes on a PC which had a
>> corresponding
>> wireless transmitting device installed on the PC. Every time the
>> presenter
>> changed pages of his presentation (PowerPoint, Word, etc. ) the software
>> on
>> his presenter PC would transmit the page digitally over a wireless
>> device.
>> I would guess that this software that transmitted the data would be built
>> into the operating system so that the people at the education institution
>> wouldn't have to do anything special to set up this capability. They'd
>> just
>> have to be aware that the software existed and they might only need to
>> turn
>> it on . or maybe just have it on all the time. It's just there in the
>> O/S.
>> Next, . what is transmitted by the presenters PC would drive the
>> wirelessly
>> controlled Braille display so that the display would pick it up, store
>> the
>> page in its buffer, and then display that page (or at least the first N
>> lines . depending on the capacity of the Braille device) on the Braille
>> display. Once received, the blind or partially sighted student could
>> then
>> peruse the information on the display, use page navigation commands to
>> navigate the page or pages, etc. This of course would demand that the
>> instructor used a PC to present the class material, was presenting with a
>> software package that the student's wireless device could receive and
>> understand, the PC would have to be transmitting wirelessly, and the
>> student
>> would have to be able to receive the wireless transmission. The benefit
>> is
>> that the student wouldn't have to be able to see the board . he or she
>> could
>> read the presentation on his Braille display. There wouldn't be
>> frustration
>> because of an inability to get the information because the student can't
>> see
>> the board. You could probably even extend this idea to laptops if a
>> student
>> had enough vision to see a laptop . But if he or she couldn't, receiving
>> it
>> in Braille would mean that a lack of vision wouldn't meant the student
>> couldn't keep up with the class. The student wouldn't have to be able to
>> see to get the information.
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course this wouldn't solve the problem for EVERY class . there could
>> be
>> some classes where this might not solve the problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> It would of course mean that the standard for presentations in (at least)
>> the high school and college environment would DEMAND this type of
>> presentation and a PC platform that would support the technology. It
>> would
>> be MANDATORY that this was a standard so that unless there were technical
>> obstacles (such as in a chemistry course for example where the teacher is
>> presenting an experiment that you just can't render on the device) the
>> textual information could be delivered to the student. If the platform
>> was
>> an agreed standard, any blind student could get math, English, other
>> subjects as well (it might also mean the student . for technical subjects
>> .
>> might need to know Nemeth). If schools had to have this type of setup,
>> then
>> the blind student would be able to get the presentation as the teacher
>> talked about it . WITHOUT having to do much .. and they'd be able to "see
>> what's on the board" . or .. "on the overhead" . because they'd be
>> receiving it on their Braille display at the same time the teacher is
>> presenting one of the pages of their presentation.
>>
>>
>>
>> As the teacher moves through the pages of the presentation, the wireless
>> display could change allowing the student to keep up. Not only could the
>> wirelessly driven display contain the current page, but with enough
>> memory,
>> it could store all the pages of the presentation . so that the student
>> could capture the entire presentation (and save it) so that he or she had
>> the entire presentation to go back to later without getting slowed down
>> by
>> manually taking Braille notes.
>>
>>
>>
>> The second Braille display would be used in a standard notetaker type of
>> application, so that as the presentation is happening on the wirelessly
>> driven display, they could be taking notes with the other display and
>> second
>> Perkins input device hooked up to the second display . checking their
>> notes
>> on the display . or just entering data on the other Perkins type 9 key
>> input.
>>
>>
>>
>> Note that this type of device would DEMAND that you knew Braille so that
>> you
>> could use the information being delivered. And, using the device would
>> DEMAND you knew the Perkins 9 key type input. If you did have a
>> notetaker
>> with a QWERTY keyboard plus the 2 multi-line braille displays, the device
>> might be too large and unwieldy to carry and use. You could save a lot
>> of
>> space by just having the Perkins input method rather than QWERTY. The
>> Perkins 9 key input keys wouldn't take up that much room, so you could
>> likely have two of these and the two displays (perhaps 4 lines of 40
>> characters each), and the device (although a bit large) might be
>> manageable.
>>
>>
>>
>> Using this device might also be a good case for mandating that partially
>> sighted students learn Braille.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, this setup is dependent on getting the cost of the Braille display
>> down. I've been reading about new advances in this technology where they
>> (universities doing development and research on new methods of rendering
>> braille) claim they can produce a Braille cell for $10, rather than the
>> current cost of $80. Given that cost, if you had two 4 line 40 cell
>> displays (160 characters each display) times 2 displays, then the cost
>> would
>> be $3200 for the Braille . well under what a display in today's
>> technology
>> costs. Heck, the 80 cell display I have at work cost $6000!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> There would also have to be a lot of technical questions answered such as
>> what software would need to be incorporated in the operating system for
>> the
>> presenters PC, and more technical questions about what software would
>> reside
>> in the Braille device, how communication was carried out, etc. a LOT of
>> questions answered. So I realize there are a LOT of problems that would
>> need to be solved.
>>
>>
>>
>> However, if we COULD do something like this, with 2 multi-line displays,
>> enabling people that can't see the presentation visually to yet see it in
>> Braille .. and take notes ... would that be worthwhile? Does this sound
>> like something that would help? Would it be worth pursuing?
>>
>>
>>
>> I think Braille is a great tool, and I think this could help boost its
>> use
>> since it would provide a reason for knowing it. Braille could be
>> responsible for delivering the class materials to the students without
>> having to make them bug their teachers who don't know what to do for
>> their
>> partially sighted and blind students anyway.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for reading this lengthy email and please let me know your
>> thoughts.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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