[nfbcs] Looking into taking Microsoft Access

Sat Nov 20 00:03:47 UTC 2010

On 11/18/2010 7:56 AM, John G. Heim wrote:
> Web-based applications are all the rage these days.  If you can sell 
> that to your employer, you might have an easier time of it. It makes 
> the front-end system independent. You don't have to have Microsoft 
> Office or any other particular program on your computer. You don't 
> even have to be running Windows. All you need is a web browser. So if 
> you can convince your employer to go that way, you'd be much better 
> off. The only problem would be that its not exactly a no-brainer to 
> learn web programming either. I take it from your comments below that 
> your company has a web server. Otherwise, that oracle tool wouldn't 
> help you much. If you're not already running a web server, then it 
> probably isn't a good idea to try to switch to web forms.
>
> If you can't do web based forms, I would highly recommend you take 
> Steve's suggestion and get on the blind pprogrammer's list. I haven't 
> been on that list for years because they talked almost entirely about 
> Visual Basic programming and I don't do that. But they sure seemed 
> knowledgable.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Beth Hatch" <bhatch200 at comcast.net>
> To: "'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'" <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 9:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Looking into taking Microsoft Access
>
>
>> Hello again Steve, it's great to correspond with you again! I would 
>> love to
>> talk with Microsoft about this, but I haven't found a contact person who
>> deals with Accessibility issues. There is no support or email that I 
>> could
>> find on the www.microsoft.com/enable site. I tried looking on the 
>> Microsoft
>> Developer site or the MSDN where they have several blogs and articles 
>> about
>> Accessibility. I emailed someone who did one of the blogs, but my 
>> email got
>> bounced.
>> That is one of the reasons why I'm glad that Robert posted about Access
>> originally because I was going to post to this list because I haven't 
>> been
>> able to find any Accessibility information or tech support though I know
>> that the NFBCS has dealt with Microsoft in the past with our convention
>> presentations and other matters. I called the Answer Line at the NFB
>> Technology Center, but the person I spoke to didn't have any Microsoft
>> contact person for Accessibility, nor did Freedom Scientific when I 
>> asked,
>> and nor has any of the other blind computer people or organizations 
>> that I
>> have called. I contacted the folks who provided my equipment for 
>> work, the
>> Computer and Electronics Accommodation Program, the program that 
>> provides
>> Access Technology to many government agencies, and though the person 
>> I spoke
>> with agreed with me on the accessibility issues, he didn't have any 
>> contact
>> information either. Luckily, my boss and colleagues have been 
>> wonderful, but
>> I'm concerned that I need to find another accessible means of 
>> producing this
>> database if not with Access. I am trying to teach myself Visual Basic 
>> for
>> Access so that I could manually program the parts of Access that 
>> don't work.
>> Unfortunately, JAWS doesn't seem to work very well inside the Visual 
>> Basic
>> Environment for Access. I am going to installing Microsoft Office 
>> 2010 this
>> weekend to see if that will work better. I've downloaded demonstration
>> versions of Oracle 11G and its web component that is supposed to convert
>> Access databases into web based forms, as well as Microsoft SQAL 
>> Server. If
>> anyone has any other suggestions as to how to make Access behave for
>> queries, forms, and reports, or if there are other more useable 
>> databases
>> out there, I would be interested in hearing about them.
>> Thank you, again Steve,  for your message.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Beth
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Steve Jacobson
>> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 7:40 PM
>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Looking into taking Microsoft Access
>>
>> Beth,
>>
>> I have not had to use Access on the job that much, but from what I've 
>> seen I
>> agree that it is not that easy to use.  Have you addressed any of your
>> difficulties with Microsoft?  Could anyone ever explain how microsoft 
>> had
>> addressed the missing command from the ribbon?  I know that one 
>> problem we
>> are starting to see is that Microsoft is starting to use UI Automation
>> instead of or in addition to MSAA in their products and screen 
>> readers are
>> not taking
>> advantage of it completely.  The fact is that very, very few of us are
>> apparently doing design work in Access.  When you add to the mix that
>> corporations
>> upgrade slowly, the feedback we give to Microsoft is very slow in 
>> coming.
>> Access 2003 is commonly used where I work, for example, and Access 
>> 2010 is
>> out so we're probably not going to get any big changes to 2007.
>>
>> Still, occasionally we find that there is a way of doing something in
>> Microsoft products that is not well documented or is there for another
>> reason so goes
>> unnoticed.  You might also see if anyone can help on the blind 
>> programmer's
>> list.  If you don't have that address, I can dig it up.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Steve Jacobson
>>
>> On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 18:06:25 -0700, Beth Hatch wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Joe, Robert and all,
>>> In my opinion, Microsoft Access is still being used, at least by bigger
>>> corporations, and where I work, the government. Access is part of the
>>> standard configuration for all of the computers on the Air Force 
>>> base where
>>> I work and although I would love to use something other than Access to
>> build
>>> the databases I've been assigned to make for my job, it would take a 
>>> lot of
>>> bureaucratic action and written justification to use any other 
>>> product for
>>> making databases because all of our computers have Microsoft office 
>>> 2007 as
>>> a part of their standard configuration.
>>> As a blind person, in my opinion, the accessibility of Access has 
>>> gotten
>>> worse. I now have an open ticket with Freedom Scientific for some 
>>> issues
>>> that I can't do independently such as putting controls like check 
>>> boxes or
>>> combo boxes on a form for example. Access 2003 used to work a bit
>>> better--you could put controls in a form by bringing up a tool box 
>>> using
>> the
>>> shift-control-b command where you could place the controls on a form 
>>> and
>> set
>>> properties for them--but that command is no longer there as it was in
>> Access
>>> 2003. When I spoke to Freedom Scientific about the problems I've been
>> having
>>> such as the above mentioned forms issue, as well as making queries and
>>> reports, I was told that "Microsoft fixed that problem with the 
>>> ribbon." A
>>> response like that made me wonder if anyone at Freedom really tried 
>>> to use
>>> Access 2007 with speech!! I think the screen reader vendors have 
>>> made their
>>> products work with the most common denominator, they make sure you can
>> enter
>>> data into a form or table using Access, but not design forms, 
>>> reports, or
>>> complicated queries as a blind person. My cynical side wants to 
>>> think that
>>> perhaps these folks think blind people don't make databases, they 
>>> only use
>>> them. I should say that my only experience with Access 2007 is with 
>>> JAWS 11
>>> and 12, I haven't tried Window-eyes or any other screen readers with
>> Access.
>>> However, I've made a lot of phone calls and sent several email 
>>> message to
>>> blind folks, and no one can seem to assist me with getting access to 
>>> work
>>> with JAWS, or any other screen reader for that matter.
>>> So Robert, to answer your question, I might look into other database
>>> products such as File Maker that Joe had mentioned, Oracle, or 
>>> Microsoft
>>> SQLL Server, or MY SQL which is an open source database product.  I'm
>>> looking into all of these to see if any of them will help me on the job
>>> since if I can make something work, I'm going to have to advocate to be
>> able
>>> to use it on the job instead of Access. I'm glad we are talking 
>>> about this
>>> issue, since it personally effects my job, and I haven't been able 
>>> to get
>>> any information from anyone with the exception of one technology vendor
>> here
>>> in New Mexico who spent a lot of time here helping me to try to make it
>>> work, and he also agreed with me concerning the lack of information  
>>> on how
>>> to make it work better in terms of Accessibility. If you check the
>> Microsoft
>>> Accessibility web site, all you'll find there are the keyboard 
>>> shortcuts
>> and
>>> nothing more about how to make Access work for blind folks, but 
>>> there is
>>> information for the rest of the MS Office 2007 product line since 
>>> there are
>>> step by step accessibility tutorials on Word, Excel and PowerPoint,  
>>> but
>> not
>>> for Access--so apparently some people, those with Microsoft as well as
>>> access technology folks,  may feel blind folks don't need to worry 
>>> about
>>> designing databases in Access.
>>> Sorry for the rant, I had meant to post something about this issue 
>>> earlier,
>>> and Robert and Joe's message about it helped that process along.<smile>
>>
>>> Beth
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Joe Orozco
>>> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 5:07 PM
>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Looking into taking Microsoft Access
>>
>>> Is anyone using Access these days?  Please don't take this as me 
>>> bashing
>>> your desire in the slightest, but I think Access is something of the
>>> red-headed step child in Office.  What about Filemaker Pro?  I'm just
>>> putting this out there to ensure you gauge all your options and learn
>>> something marketable.  If I'm wrong, please do feel free to correct 
>>> me so
>>> I'll know better.
>>
>>> Best,
>>
>>> Joe
>>
>>> "Hard work spotlights the character of people: some turn up their 
>>> sleeves,
>>> some turn up their noses, and some don't turn up at all."--Sam Ewing
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Robert Jaquiss
>>> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 6:29 PM
>>> To: NFBnet NFBCS Mailing List
>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Looking into taking Microsoft Access
>>
>>> Hello:
>>
>>>     I am thinking about taking Microsoft Access 2007. I have
>>> JAWS and a braille display. Any suggestions for good reference
>>> materials would be appreciated. thank you.
>>
>>> Regards,
>>
>>> Robert
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Hello John, thank you for your message. The Air Force does have web 
servers, but not in the department where I am. The current database is 
using Microsoft access and the Air Force is pretty Microsoft centric. If 
I really found somehting that could do what is needed, I think I could 
use something web based and I think my boss would support it. However, I 
would be the one to have to do the research, and I would need to do that 
on my home computer because I only have my desktop to use while I'm at 
work. You've given me something to think about to consider and I 
appreciate that very much.

Thanks!!

Best Regards,

Beth