[nfbcs] Blindness and Computer Science RE: (no subject)

Wed Feb 20 19:03:44 UTC 2013

Zeeshan,

Those are all great questions! I'll see if I can manage answers without 
turning them into a novel. /smile/

We just moved out into the sticks for family reasons, so what I do now 
is wonder how the heck to get into programming somehow here. Which I've 
done before, so we'll see how it goes. /smile/ I'm focusing on getting 
my database skills back up to snuff, since I see more possibility to use 
those for smaller businesses around here. So I'm using php for the 
programming to build the user interface on my practice project. The 
MySQL/php combination is so ubiquitous these days that it seems as good 
a place to start as any, especially since most of my background is 
web-based. I do need to pick a non-web language sooner or later to focus 
on next. Even what I did know has changed so much that I just need to 
relearn everything! /lol/

I'm still getting information from the job market we just moved from, 
and it's finally picking up after the long dearth. One thing I really 
notice in those announcements is the focus on experience over education 
in qualifications, even for the more advanced positions. Interesting. 
Also, more mention of "related experience," which gives latitude for a 
career-changer I should think.

Challenges as a not-young career-change programmer... The biggest hurdle 
I've had to overcome is the credibility gap that comes from lack of 
sheepskin. But don't you have a degree? That gives you an edge right 
there when it comes to having your ideas heard and implemented, which is 
what leads to greater opportunity after you do get your foot in the 
door. It can be really frustrating, but the solution is patience and a 
whole lot of that extra time and effort just to prove yourself. But, 
there, the advantage of having worked in other areas of business is that 
you can demonstrate that you know a lot that the folks you're working 
for will understand and appreciate. When it comes down to it, computer 
skill and programming expertise is really great for advancing one's 
career without absolutely needing to drop everything to polish off the 
degree, which is how I ended up shifting into it. /smile/

Also, those dreaded young kids who have been programming since they were 
in diapers also have a whole lot of energy without necessarily having 
gotten into those other life responsibilities us old and weary types 
have. They can program circles around you all day, then go home and 
spend the night learning all about the new stuff that is coming along 
and getting good at it... I've learned to enjoy feeling stupid and left 
behind because I can learn a lot from what they're learning. /smile/ I 
just have to remember that I can leverage my overall experience and 
maturity to keep up in ways they haven't learned to yet.

I also need to target my off-the-job learning more efficiently, because 
everything is always changing. What I know today will get me nowhere 
tomorrow. So that counts as a challenge for sure, although that's what I 
like about the field. There's a lot of tedium involved in many facets of 
the programming process, but you never have time to just settle back and 
get bored and complacent. /smile/

I'd better end the novel now before I get myself in real trouble. I 
found making the switch to programming and design and development to be 
very worthwhile and keep coming back to that as my best option for 
getting back into something I can do as a blind person here, if not so 
conveniently as if there were, you know, jobs out here. /lol/ But all 
that earlier business experience will come in real handy again as we get 
settled and get back out for networking and all. I can, I hope 
eventually, chat up some opportunity. /smile/

Let us know how your further research goes and what you decide to do.

Tami

On 02/19/2013 03:56 PM, Zeeshan Khan wrote:
> Hi Tami,
> Thanks for your thoughtful response.
>
> So what kind of programming do you do now? Do you think age plays a factor
> when it comes to learning programming because nowadays you have young kids
> in their teens becoming wizards at programming. It seems like your
> experience has been great a a programmer, what are some of the challenges
> you face being a programmer in general, not necessarily being blind, when
> it came to learning programming? Any specific resources you would be able
> ot point me to, as I am looking to get started right away.
>
> Thanks,
> Zeeshan
>
> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi, and welcome!
>>
>> Like you, I got into programming along the way of my career and made a
>> career switch of it starting about the time I got to be legally blind. I
>> just happened to have the opportunity to pick up a project no one else
>> wanted, which led to a more advanced project, which got me hooked. I could
>> also see the advantage of having those skills for the future because the
>> technology was coming along that would make it possible to continue to do
>> it as I lost the ability to read along the way. Back then, it was a real
>> advantage to be able to read print because there wasn't the equivalent
>> wealth of accessible reading material there is now. Stuff happened, so I'm
>> happy all that material I need to read is available in the formats I need
>> now to get back up to snuff and advance my skills. Whew!
>>
>> Oddly, the new stuff I'm learning nonvisually from the get go is actually
>> proving easier than what I'm re-learning that I learned visually and now
>> have to totally reconceptualize, especially for programming. That doesn't
>> prove a thing, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. /smile/ The stuff I
>> used to need a pencil and drawing pad for on the design end is dratted
>> difficult, but since I know blind people who do it and have picked up some
>> hints of how from them, I'm beginning to make headway even there. Whew!
>>
>> As for the bit where you need "a solid foundation in computer science" ...
>> Generally, it is people who *aren't* in the field who come up with that
>> one. Real programmers these days seem to be more of the opinion -- and so
>> am I -- that you can get going and accomplish quite a lot without actually
>> knowing all the nitty gritty underlayers between your program and the
>> machine.
>>
>> That being said, it wouldn't hurt to read up on the machines themselves if
>> you don't already have a general idea of how they work below the surface.
>> Programming is really communicating with the machine in a way that makes
>> sense to it. Most modern programming languages enable you to do that by
>> using existing compilers that translate your instructions down to the
>> machine itself. So if you learn Java, say, you can focus on what is there
>> and let the Java compiler take care of the rest. If that makes sense. But
>> for learning purposes of *how* to use Java to do more than send greetings
>> to the world or make balls bounce colorfully, I think it would be a
>> strength to understand how and why at least in a general way. But that
>> could be just me. /smile/
>>
>> Er... If you haven't really gotten started yet, I will translate my last
>> attempt at humor: "Hello, World!" That is the first program you will ever
>> write in any programming language. /lol/ Then you will probably give
>> greetings in colorful text and... Well, it's a start, and I'm doing more
>> tutorials, and it's still there.
>>
>> Tami
>>
>>
>> On 02/18/2013 08:28 PM, Zeeshan Khan wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Nicole,
>>> Yeah sorry about that, I realized I hadn't included a subject after I sent
>>> it.
>>>
>>> I am looking to establish a solid foundation in programming whether it be
>>> in programming for the computer or the internet. I really want to start
>>> out
>>> learning the basics and work my way up to being good enough to land a job
>>> hopefully.
>>>
>>> What I hear many people say is , if you don't have a solid foundation in
>>> computer science, it doesn't make sense to jump into different languages
>>> if
>>> you are a beginner.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Nicole Torcolini
>>> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>**wrote:
>>>
>>>   What kind of programming are you thinking about? There is programming
>>>> that
>>>> runs on the computer itself and there is programming that works on the
>>>> internet. Both have high level and low level languages.
>>>> Also, on a side note, please include subjects in your emails in the
>>>> futures
>>>> as emails without subjects are often suspected of being spam or a virus.
>>>>
>>>> Nicole
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.**org<nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
>>>> On Behalf Of Zeeshan Khan
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 8:09 PM
>>>> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] (no subject)
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I am trying to learn programming and I am an absolute beginner. As a
>>>> legally
>>>> blind person I want to ask you all if anyone has learned programming and
>>>> computer science as a blind person. The things is I have already gotten
>>>> my
>>>> degree in economics about 3 years ago, so I am not sure if I am too late
>>>> to
>>>> the field. So how did any of you learn computer science/  programming?
>>>> What
>>>> resources did you use? how long did it take you to become a decent
>>>> programmer, or at least good enough to land a job? I am not trying to go
>>>> back to school and get a Bachelors as it own't really help me, plus I
>>>> don't
>>>> have the time as I am working. I really want to learn computer science
>>>> as I
>>>> am looking to make a career change, and the future is in technology. I am
>>>> aware of many online resources, like codecademy, coursera and other free
>>>> things online, but not sure if I should get into these, as I lack a
>>>> foundation in computer science. What is the job market like , in your
>>>> opinion?
>>>>
>>>> I really look forward to hearing your thoughts and experiences, Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Zeeshan Khan
>>>>
>>>> ToiBooks
>>>> www.toibooks.com
>>>> http://www.facebook.com/**ToiBooks <http://www.facebook.com/ToiBooks>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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