[nfbcs] Preference in Braille Displays

Mon May 20 15:30:23 UTC 2013

Jude,

I would so love to do that! It's just not doable at this point, although 
Baltimore is on the list of must-see's for when we ever get to our east 
coast trip. A tech purchase for me is ahead of that on the budget, 
though, so there you have it. Of course, our family emergency Florida 
trip took out my tech budget for the year, so I feel sorry for myself 
and am trying to come up with a new plan I can live with. With 2 fathers 
in their nineties on opposite sides of the country, planning is iffy.

I have been thinking iPad (and later iPhone) to compensate for the lack 
of native note taking capability in the Focus. I have other plans for 
using the iPad anyway. So if that combo works as advertised, that would 
give me a lot more portability and flexibility than I have now. Of 
course, if the perkins keyboard cannot be used to type notes in braille 
there, either... Yikes!

Anyway, for now I'm on hold, but I do like to keep up with what's 
available and how things work so I can make good decisions when the time 
comes to get back to my own life. Of all the questions I asked around 
about the Focus, though, a few months ago when I was doing more serious 
research, it just never occurred to me to ask if the braille keyboard 
can be used to type braille! Silly me, I guess. /smile/

Tami

On 05/19/2013 09:55 AM, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Baltimore Maryland inside the National Federation Of The Blind's
> technology lab is a good place to get to especially if you can arrange
> more than one appointment on more than one day.  You'll have time to
> think about questions as a result of earlier appointments and get much
> better informed.  No the Focus 80 3.70 hasn't got even basic notetaking
> capability.
>
> On Sun, 19 May 2013, Tami Jarvis wrote:
>
>> Ah. Thank you so much for that! It's still going to be awhile before I can
>> purchase, but I like to know as much as I can so that when the time comes, I
>> can just up and order what I need. The only good thing about the delay is that
>> it increases the odds I can get to somewhere to actually do some hands-on
>> exploration of models I am considering.
>>
>> I wonder if there is a difference with Linux through Orca, BRLTTY and liblouis
>> and all. I will definitely be asking around about that!
>>
>> Thanks again for the good info! You may have saved me from a really expensive
>> mistake!
>>
>> Tami
>>
>> On 05/19/2013 09:00 AM, Jude DaShiell wrote:
>>> The keyboard is a perkins-style keyboard true enough, but it cannot send
>>> the entire character set through to your computer.  Only a few different
>>> keystrokes used for navigation can go through.  It comes with a keyboard
>>> holder for a qwerty keyboard so you can do the rest of your typing on
>>> that qwerty keyboard.  What I have is focus 80 3.70, so if you have that
>>> model, that's what you get.  Whenever dealing with FreedomScientific,
>>> it's wise when you're told some unit has a braille keyboard to ask can
>>> the braille keyboard entirely replace a qwerty keyboard connected to a
>>> computer.  If the answer comes back no as I expect it will, the braille
>>> keyboard isn't a full function keyboard.
>>>
>>> On Sun, 19 May 2013, Tami Jarvis wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jude,
>>>>
>>>> Yikes! I've decided that the Focus 40 Blue, when I can spring for it, is
>>>> the
>>>> display for me. Unless I win the lottery and can get the 80. But I was
>>>> under
>>>> the impression that it has a braille keyboard... Well, I just checked, and
>>>> the
>>>> model I'm wanting has one. That, for me, is a key feature! I'm using an
>>>> older
>>>> PacMate 440, which is great for reading but not for navigating or making
>>>> notes
>>>> without taking my hands off the display, etc., etc. I love the thing
>>>> because
>>>> it is my first refreshable display and has opened wide horizons for me,
>>>> but...
>>>> I whine daily about its lack in the efficiency and convenience department.
>>>>
>>>> Could it be that the one you are using at work is an older model? Or are
>>>> you
>>>> saying that the perkins keyboard does not allow typing on the computer?
>>>> Or...
>>>>
>>>> Well, since you are using one and mentioned that issue. Would hate to
>>>> wrangle
>>>> money and order a new wonder machine only to discover that it doesn't do
>>>> one
>>>> of the wonderful things I most need it to! /shudder/
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any input you can give!
>>>>
>>>> Tami
>>>>
>>>> On 05/17/2013 01:46 PM, Jude DaShiell wrote:
>>>>> If the focus 40 and focus 80 are under discussion here, they differ from
>>>>> the versabraille classic p2c in that the p2c has a perkins-type keyboard
>>>>> that can type the whole character set on the computer.  That's something
>>>>> neither of the focus products can do.  I use a focus 80 at work and my
>>>>> employer really ought to find other displays that can replace a qwerty
>>>>> keyboard and screen when necessary because the braille keyboards will
>>>>> sound different than qwerty keyboards and provide a security advantage
>>>>> against anyone picking up keystrokes with a parabolic microphone for
>>>>> later decoding.  That having been written, two things a focus display
>>>>> will do are showing formatting and showing spelling easily and quickly.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 17 May 2013, Hyde, David W. (ESC) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You can use the same display (those that are standalone devices) for
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same functions as the computer displays.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>> majolls at cox.net
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 12:59 PM
>>>>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Preference in Braille Displays
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why am I not surprised here.
>>>>>> What you're saying is that there's a different tool for a different
>>>>>> task.
>>>>>> Too bad each tool is so pricey.
>>>>>> I can definitely see for big jobs, you want the 40.  For seeing a lot
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> formatting, you'd run out of room with the smaller device.
>>>>>> And for portability, you want the smaller device.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was thinking about getting the 40 as a general solution.  It's
>>>>>> bigger,
>>>>>> but not too big, and you can carry it around.  A smaller device would
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> nicer .. less space and weight to take up in the backpack
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So maybe the answer is to get the 40 first, and see how it works
>>>>>> carrying
>>>>>> it around.  The HIMMS isn't too big, and it does have the ability to
>>>>>> be a
>>>>>> standalone notetaker plus connect via Bluetooth or USB.  Plus it has
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> SD card option for external storage.  Then if I find it's too big for
>>>>>> carrying around, I could always try to get the 18 or 20 cell variety
>>>>>> HIMMS
>>>>>> that is just smaller.  But I get it ... you may need more than one
>>>>>> depending on what you do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is kind of like guitars.  When I got into playing, I asked
>>>>>> someone
>>>>>> ... "is there one guitar that does it all?".  He just laughed.  "No, I
>>>>>> have 7 and they play slightly different tones.  I use them each for a
>>>>>> different application".  I didn't understand until I started playing
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> earnest.  Now I have 3 main guitars that I use.  Each is used in a
>>>>>> different application.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Too bad Braille Displays are so expensive.  My wife is going to LOVE
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> answer.  I can see her rolling her eyes and saying ... "Here we go
>>>>>> again!!".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Final note .. I take from the answers I'm hearing that a display with
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> built-in note taking functions (such as the HIMMS) is prefereable so
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> can use them standalone without being connected to anything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the replies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---- Robert Jaquiss <rjaquiss at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         If I had to choose between an 18 and 40 cell display, I would
>>>>>>> choose 40 cells especially if it had some basic notetaking
>>>>>>> capabilities. Having a display that can connect with either USB or
>>>>>>> Bluetooth is a good idea. If you want to read NLS books, these are
>>>>>>> formatted for 40 cells. If you want to carry your display with you
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> use it with a phone, then a smaller display is probably better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>> majolls at cox.net
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 9:31 AM
>>>>>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Preference in Braille Displays
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi everyone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wanted to get your input on what works best as a general purpose
>>>>>>> Braille Display.
>>>>>>> Would you want one that is just a dumb terminal, or one that has
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> notetaking capability built into it?
>>>>>>> I also wanted to find out what gives better efficiency ... 18 cells
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> 40 cells
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So the first Braille display I tried was the Freedom Focus 40 blue.
>>>>>>> Liked it alot, but it has to be hooked up to another device such as
>>>>>>> IOS or Windows PC to work.  No smarts in the device at all.
>>>>>>> Next I heard about the HIMMS Edge 40.  Now there's something
>>>>>>> interesting.  I can connect it like the Freedom, it can be a slave.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can use it as a dumb terminal or I can disconnect it and do some
>>>>>>> basic
>>>>>>> notetaking tasks with it without it being connected to anything.
>>>>>>> Price is about the same as the Freedom model.  Is the flexibility
>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>> to have?  I guess that depends on where you go with it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I recall, HIMMS has the 40 cell model, but it also has the OnHand
>>>>>>> which is an 18 cell model.
>>>>>>> So, of those that use Braille Displays, do you prefer a 40 or 18
>>>>>>> cell?
>>>>>>> Is an 18 cell adequate or are you complaining constantly because you
>>>>>>> don't have enough cells and you're constantlyhitting the advance
>>>>>>> button?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The 18 cell models are cheaper, that's why I'm asking.  I'm
>>>>>>> thinking,
>>>>>>> however, that the 40 cell model would be better ... more braille
>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>> you hit the advance key.  Also, the notetaking features built into
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> HIMMS mean you don't have to carry the display plus the iPad or
>>>>>>> iPhone.  You could just carry the device alone.  I'm kind of leaning
>>>>>>> toward the HIMMS but I'd like some info from people that actually
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> one .. or other devices.  Tell me what you like and what you don't
>>>>>>> like.  $3000 is a lot of money to spend so I wanted to get some
>>>>>>> practical advice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So what configuration do most of you use?  Let me know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>>>>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nfbcs:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/rjaquiss%40earthlin
>>>>>>> k.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>>>>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nfbcs:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/majolls%40cox.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>>>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nfbcs:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/david.hyde%40wcbvi.k12.wi.us
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>>>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nfbcs:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jdashiel%40shellworld.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> jude <jdashiel at shellworld.net>
>>>>> About to block another web browser version?  Ask yourself what Tim
>>>>> Berners-lee would do.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nfbcs:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/tami%40poodlemutt.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nfbcs:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jdashiel%40shellworld.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> jude <jdashiel at shellworld.net>
>>> About to block another web browser version?  Ask yourself what Tim
>>> Berners-lee would do.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/tami%40poodlemutt.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nfbcs mailing list
>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jdashiel%40shellworld.net
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> jude <jdashiel at shellworld.net>
> About to block another web browser version?  Ask yourself what Tim
> Berners-lee would do.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfbcs mailing list
> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nfbcs:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/tami%40poodlemutt.com
>