[nfbcs] Google Accessibility was RE: evaluation display of a web page

Tue Nov 5 03:21:59 UTC 2013

Kevin

Thanks for this, I need to explore Chromevox more, I haven't used it yet.

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Fjelsted
Sent: Monday, November 4, 2013 4:42 PM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Google Accessibility was RE: evaluation display of a
web page

I think there is also another factor. Chromevox is an extension to Chrome.
It is a screenreader but only for Chrome and only for web stuff since that
is what Chrome is for.
In this process Google controls the interface fully between Chrome and
Chromevox. Both are open source and thus both are publicly open.
But also the integration point has been made much more successfully than
trying to shoehorn something together which is what FS has to do when
interfacing with IE or FF.
Similarly Safari and VOiceOver are more tightly integrated. There have been
many instances where Safari/VoiceOver has been more accessible than Jaws and
IE for instance.

I have found that the best accessibility to web elements is with ChromeVox.

If we really wanted to push a direction we should support ChromeVox and
support developers that make web solutions.

FInally, there is a Javascript API in ChromeVox that permits a web developer
to imbed deep levels of accessibility within there web pages.

This is a much smarter approach than asking developers to write JAWS
scripting for example because any serious web developer is already fully
tuned in to JavaScript.

-Kevin

On Nov 4, 2013, at 5:28 PM, Michael Babcock <empoweringtheblind at icloud.com>
wrote:

> I'm going to go out on a limb and ask something that I've been curious 
> about... Likely this message will make someone mad.
> Why is it google's responsibility to make there products accessible?
> Why isn't it freedom scientifics or GW Micro's responsibility to make 
> there screen readers work better? I mean seriously we all fork out 
> $800+ for our screen readers on top of the price of the computer, (or 
> state departments do), and when something doesn't work the manufacture 
> of the screen reader blames inaccessibility from the vendor of the
software were trying to use?
> Sounds like someone is just pushing the blaim onto someone else to me...
> IMO, and this is why I just use a 40 minute demo of jaws, and narrator 
> with nvda... I don't buy screen readers, and won't pay for one. Now, I 
> understand that people who write software can do better to make there 
> software more accessible, however, google is going to worry about 
> making there stuff accessible with there screen readers (chromevox, 
> talkback, etc), and honestly jaws and voiceover will take backburner.
> michael
> I work from home, and you can to.
> http://myownpay.com/
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve 
> Jacobson
> Sent: Monday, November 4, 2013 4:00 PM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Google Accessibility was RE: evaluation display 
> of a web page
> 
> Jim,
> 
> One struggle I have is that I think in some cases Google is trying to 
> do some leading edge stuff that perhaps could be accessible but isn't 
> supported well by screen readers.  Our only choice to some degree is 
> to ask companies like Google to slow down, but I really think we need 
> to get a better handle on what the limits are to current accessibility 
> and when we need to pressure screen readers and when we need to 
> pressure companies to conform some to existing standards and good 
> practices.  From what I know of screen reader development, the problem 
> isn't simply that screen readers don't bother supporting what might be 
> supported better but that they are having to try to support so much 
> that is new that they can't keep up.  What I don't think people 
> recognize is that the more resources one puts into a project, the more 
> management overhead is also added.  I don't think it is even 
> proportional, the ratio goes up faster.  By management overhead, I 
> don't mean people as much as all that has to be done to track changes and
test new features as well as making sure old features are not broken in the
process.
> I have found, for example, that some of Google's pages work better 
> when one turns off JFW's virtual cursor or Window-Eyes' Browse Mode.  
> Unfortunately, there are still gaps, but it causes me to unsure when I 
> should be complaining to Google and when it is the screen readers.  I 
> also don't know how to resolve this adequately.  I really think we as 
> consumers need to somehow understand this better as we move forward.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Steve Jacobson
> 
> On Mon, 4 Nov 2013 13:47:25 -0800, Jim Barbour wrote:
> 
>> It is true that Google, and every other web application developer, 
>> releases code far more frequently than older PC based software did.
>> However, it's still a good idea to let google know when you find 
>> thuff that doesn't work.
> 
>> The same is true for Apple.
> 
>> I don't know why, but we blind folks seem especially unwilling to 
>> speak up and let companies know when stuff isn't working for us.  We 
>> seem to have the rather toxic idea that "they should know if 
>> accessibility is broken and if they don't want to fix it then I'm going
to help them."
> 
>> Jim
> 
>> On Mon, Nov 04, 2013 at 01:40:37PM -0800, Mike Freeman wrote:
>>> The problem is that "fixes" may not stick. Google is tinkering with 
>>> its stuff constantly. The phrase "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" 
>>> is not in their vocabulary.
>>> 
>>> Mike Freeman
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole 
>>> Torcolini
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 3:16 PM
>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Google Accessibility was RE: evaluation display of 
>>> a web page
>>> 
>>> April and all, if you are having problems with Google products, 
>>> please let them know. They may not be able to fix it right away, but 
>>> they still want to know and might be able to tell you some kind of 
>>> work
> around.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of April 
>>> Brown
>>> Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 2:05 PM
>>> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] evaluation display of a web page
>>> 
>>> Ten years or so ago, I learned HTMl and attempted to code accessible 
>>> from W3schools.  They do have Code check.  I don't think it's that 
>>> good.  In the last year I have lost most of my vision, and much of 
>>> my hearing, so it's even more important than ever!  And I always 
>>> wanted to
> code accessible.
>>> Though, knowing some varying issues, especially with vision, I'm not 
>>> 100% sure it is possible to code for every variation.  I may be wrong.
>>> 
>>> Hi *Susan Stanzel,  It would be wonderful if programs on both ends 
>>> could fix the issues to make websites more accessible.  And I agree.
>>> I have tried to learn NVDA, and well, learning keyboard workarounds 
>>> is ten times harder than HTML ever was!
>>> 
>>> Hi ***Mike Jolls - Since you evaluate websites for accessibility, 
>>> can I ask you a question?  For the last few years, my author website 
>>> has been on a Google site.  Are Google websites accessible?  I can 
>>> change some of the coding, though much of what I think would need to 
>>> be adjusted is not accessible to the page holders that I can find.
>>> 
>>> Thanks.  Still new to the world of mostly deaf and blind, and the 
>>> screen readers that confuse me when they don't just work when I open 
>>> the page.*
>>> 
>>> *
>>> 
>>> 
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