[nfbcs] The Mac Beckens

John G. Heim jheim at math.wisc.edu
Sun Jan 17 20:27:56 UTC 2016 

I think one of the mainreasons people like voiceover so much is that it 
is included on every Apple device for no additional cost. That is 
non-trivial.




On 01/17/2016 01:55 PM, Nicole Torcolini via nfbcs wrote:
>                  Here is my opinion. I will use a Mac when hell freezes over.
> What the devil is so much better about VoiceOver?
>
>                  Stop making empty claims without supporting them. Stop
> cherry picking the information that you want and ignoring the rest. As this
> article
> <http://qz.com/588126/theres-a-good-reason-americans-are-horrible-at-science
> />  says, stops using facts "much like a drunk uses a
>
> lamppost: for support, not illumination."
>
>                  VoiceOver has just as many, if not more, problems as other
> screen readers. I know because many of my coworkers use Macs, and Apple is
> introducing more bugs than they are fixing when it comes to internet use.
> And they have no pressure to fix the bugs because, on the Mac, there is no
> competition.
>
>                  Microsoft has a screen reader; it is called Narrator. I have
> heard that it is better on newer versions of Windows, which I have not
> tried, but, from my experience, it does not work worth a damn. I know that
> Microsoft has some kind of deal with Windows Eyes, but it does not work well
> with complex websites. Also, if Microsoft will not even consider
> accessibility when making their products, and do stuff like put the ribbon
> everywhere, why would they be interested in maintaining a screen reader?
>
>   
>
> Nicole
>
>   
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter Donahue via
> nfbcs
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 11:25 PM
> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
> Cc: Peter Donahue
> Subject: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
>
>   
>
>   
>
> Good morning everyone,
>
>   
>
>                  If Microsoft would do with its Windows screen reader what
> Apple has done with the MAC and its iDevices perhaps we would have fewer
> issues with compatibility and accessibility tools could be kept up-to-date
> more easily and with little to no cost. Perhaps some MAC and iOS users could
> weigh in on this issue with the petition and share their experiences with
> accessing it under iOS and oSX. Perhaps in another few years we'll be 100%
> Mac and iOS users in this house-hold.
>
>   
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>   
>
>   
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: nfbcs [ <mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org>
> mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain via nfbcs
>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:35 PM
>
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>
> Cc: Christopher Chaltain
>
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] NVDA and JAWS [was "Re: Petition Asking President Obama
> To Direct the JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations"]
>
>   
>
> The idea that anything that's three years old is antiquated is incorrect.
>
> I'm sure quite a few people on this list are using Office2013 or Office 2010
> if not something older. Microsoft and many companies support products for
> more than three years. People used Windows XP for ten years and beyond.
>
>   
>
> I never saw anything on this list that the problem accessing this petition
> has to do with the version of JAWS being used. I get the impression that
> people using more recent versions of JAWS are experiencing the same problem.
>
> In other words, I didn't see anything in this thread that JAWS 13 can't do
> the job and can't be used affectively for all sorts of tasks. It seems to me
> that people are just jumping to conclusions and using this message to make a
> point rather than help a JAWS user solve their problem and submit this
> petition.
>
>   
>
> Obviously, I can't tell people what words they can and cannot use, but I
> think information can be provided in a more sympathetic tone. I'm sure most
> people running JAWS 13 would like to upgrade, and they don't need to have
> their faces rubbed in the fact that they can't afford an update.
>
> No one may have intended to make anyone feel bad but communication is a two
> way street, and people need to take into account not just how their words
> are intended but how they may be received.
>
>   
>
> On 16/01/16 22:08, Buddy Brannan via nfbcs wrote:
>
>> The unfortunate reality is that you simply *can't* do everything with
>> one
> screen reader. There's certainly no reason not to have more than one if you
> can afford one, because NVDA is free software. Both definitions of free.
>
> Window-Eyes is even no cost if you have Office 2010 or newer.
>
>> The other unfortunate reality is that Jaws 13.0 *is* antiquated, and
>> that
> isn't meant to make anyone feel bad, it's just a fact. You really can't use
> a three year old version of anything and expect it to behave correctly with
> something that's newer. It just isn't realistic.
>
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>> Email:  <mailto:buddy at brannan.name> buddy at brannan.name
>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:55 PM, Christopher Chaltain via nfbcs
> < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>>> I agree that it's good to have NVDA in your tool box regardless of
>>> what
> version of JAWS you're running, but it isn't always possible for people to
> keep up with a product like JAWS, and using two different screen readers can
> be frustrating. I think it's OK to suggest JAWS, but there's no need to make
> anyone feel bad by calling the tools they can afford to use "antiquated".
>
>>> On 16/01/16 15:18, Jude DaShiell via nfbcs wrote:
>>>> This is why when jaws users know they're not going to be able to
>>>> update jaws it's a good idea to have installed nvda to do the jobs
>>>> their antiquated version of jaws can no longer do.
>>>> On Sat, 16 Jan 2016, Mike Freeman via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 16:03:52
>>>>> From: Mike Freeman via nfbcs < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>
>>>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>
>>>>> Cc: Mike Freeman < <mailto:k7uij at panix.com> k7uij at panix.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>>>>>      JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>>>>> excess ability does not imply backward compatibility. Your version
>>>>> of jaws is several versions out of date. I suspect it may be part
>>>>> of the problem.
>>>>> Mike Freeman
>>>>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 12:52, Jennifer Aberdeen via nfbcs
>>>>>> < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Why is this patition not accessible? When I click on the submit
>>>>>> button, in different ways; enter, space, left mouse button on the
>>>>>> num pad, nothing happens.
>>>>>> I'm using jaws 13 with win 7 and IE 11.
>>>>>> Jen
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Curtis Chong via nfbcs
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 1:38 PM
>>>>>> To:  <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Cc: Curtis Chong
>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>>>>>> JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>>>>>> Greetings:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2016, the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>> launched a petition (the link to which is provided below) calling
>>>>>> on the Obama administration promptly to release the long-awaited
>>>>>> ADA internet regulations. On the 20th anniversary of the Americans
>>>>>> with Disabilities Act (way back in 2010), President Obama said
>>>>>> that he would issue regulations implementing the requirement for
>>>>>> accessible websites, noting that they would be "the most important
>>>>>> updates to the ADA since its original enactment."
>>>>>> President Obama now says that the regulations will not be released
>>>>>> until 2018, after he leaves office.
>>>>>> For those of who are blind, inaccessible websites can make it
>>>>>> impossible to apply for jobs, participate in online courses, or
>>>>>> conduct vital personal financial business. Website developers need
>>>>>> guidance on how to comply with the law. Failing to provide that
>>>>>> guidance is irresponsible and inconsistent with President Obama's
>>>>>> expressed commitment to civil rights.
>>>>>> If you are interested in signing the petition (and I hope you
>>>>>> are), point your browser to this link.
>>>>>>   <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-us-department-jus>
> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-us-department-jus
>
>>>>>> tice-promp
>>>>>> tly-release-ada-internet-regulations
>>>>>> As an example of the need for these regulations, some JAWS users
>>>>>> running Internet Explorer have reported a problem with the "sign"
>>>>>> button when attempting to add their name. Here are some solutions
>>>>>> to help mitigate that problem.
>>>>>> 1.            Try routing the JAWS cursor to PC (Insert+Numpad
>>>>>> Minus), and
>>>>>> pressing  the left mouse button (Numpad Slash), and the "sign"
>>>>>> button will be selected.
>>>>>> 2.            Alternatively, you can sign the petition using the
> Mozilla
>
>>>>>> Firefox browser.
>>>>>> The petition is reported to be accessible using iOS devices such
>>>>>> as the iPad or iPhone.
>>>>>> Cordially,
>>>>>> Curtis Chong, President
>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind in Computer Science
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
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>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>>>   <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> om
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> .com
>>> --
>>> Christopher (CJ)
>>> chaltain at Gmail
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> me
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>> m
>   
>
> --
>
> Christopher (CJ)
>
> chaltain at Gmail
>
>   
>
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