[nfbcs] Mac with Windows Virtual Machine was RE: The Mac Beckens
Robert Spangler
spangler.robert at gmail.com
Mon Jan 18 18:16:25 UTC 2016
Just to add my two cents to this discussion:
I tried using a Mac for six months back at the end of 2013. I don't know
how much it has changed since then but I had several issues. First, I
didn't find that producing professional documents was as easy with iWorks as
it is with Microsoft Word. The reporting of formatting information was
inconsistent, table navigation was not very adequate and, worst of all, I
experienced inconsistent, buggy behavior when trying to copy/paste text from
Text Edit to iWorks Writer or whatever it is called. Writing documents and
all of the tasks associated with the same are pretty important to me.
I also found the Mac not to be as responsive overall as my windows machines.
This could have been the computer itself but still I can spend the same
amount of money or less and purchase a PC that is way powerful than any Mac.
In addition, I can modify the components as I like.
I had fun with the Mac. All of the things I do with my PC in regards to
entertainment worked just fine. My main gripes remain the overall
responsiveness/performance and the lack of quality with iWorks and
VoiceOver.
I have heard that, recently, Microsoft Office has been made accessible.
This might be a game changer. I've also heard that iworks has been
dramatically improved. Can someone enlighten me on these two things? How
usable is Microsoft Office on the Mac? What has been improved on the iworks
side?
Thanks,
Robby
-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Nicole Torcolini
via nfbcs
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 10:48 AM
To: 'luis Mendez' <lmendez716 at gmail.com>; 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing
List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Nicole Torcolini <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
Subject: [nfbcs] Mac with Windows Virtual Machine was RE: The Mac Beckens
You mean a virtual machine? Several years ago, I tried that when I
was required to use a Mac at an internship. It did not work well because,
even when the maximum amount of memory was given to the vm, JAWS was
extremely sluggish. Has this improved recently? I have not tried it again
because I do not care for the Mac. As I already said, Apple seems to be in
no hurry to fix some of the VoiceOver bugs. I also do not like the way that
VoiceOver works compared to Windows modal screen readers and the fact that
many of the VoiceOver require pressing three or more keys.
-----Original Message-----
From: luis Mendez [mailto:lmendez716 at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:53 AM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
Cc: Nicole Torcolini
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
Good article. As for Mac versus Windows, if wou can afford to do so, buy
a Mac and install Windows on it. It also helps to get a dedicated Windows
keyboard. Thus equipped, you'll have the best of both environments.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 17, 2016, at 2:55 PM, Nicole Torcolini via nfbcs
> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
>
> Here is my opinion. I will use a Mac when hell freezes
over.
> What the devil is so much better about VoiceOver?
>
> Stop making empty claims without supporting them. Stop
> cherry picking the information that you want and ignoring the rest. As
> this article
> <http://qz.com/588126/theres-a-good-reason-americans-are-horrible-at-s
> cience /> says, stops using facts "much like a drunk uses a
>
> lamppost: for support, not illumination."
>
> VoiceOver has just as many, if not more, problems as
> other screen readers. I know because many of my coworkers use Macs,
> and Apple is introducing more bugs than they are fixing when it comes
> to
internet use.
> And they have no pressure to fix the bugs because, on the Mac, there
> is no competition.
>
> Microsoft has a screen reader; it is called Narrator. I
> have heard that it is better on newer versions of Windows, which I
> have not tried, but, from my experience, it does not work worth a
> damn. I know that Microsoft has some kind of deal with Windows Eyes,
> but it does not work well with complex websites. Also, if Microsoft
> will not even consider accessibility when making their products, and
> do stuff like put the ribbon everywhere, why would they be interested
> in
maintaining a screen reader?
>
>
>
> Nicole
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Peter
> Donahue via nfbcs
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 11:25 PM
> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
> Cc: Peter Donahue
> Subject: [nfbcs] The Mac Beckens
>
>
>
>
>
> Good morning everyone,
>
>
>
> If Microsoft would do with its Windows screen reader
> what Apple has done with the MAC and its iDevices perhaps we would
> have fewer issues with compatibility and accessibility tools could be
> kept up-to-date more easily and with little to no cost. Perhaps some
> MAC and iOS users could weigh in on this issue with the petition and
> share their experiences with accessing it under iOS and oSX. Perhaps
> in another few years we'll be 100% Mac and iOS users in this house-hold.
>
>
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: nfbcs [ <mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org>
> mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain via
> nfbcs
>
> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 10:35 PM
>
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>
> Cc: Christopher Chaltain
>
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] NVDA and JAWS [was "Re: Petition Asking President
> Obama To Direct the JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet
> Regulations"]
>
>
>
> The idea that anything that's three years old is antiquated is incorrect.
>
> I'm sure quite a few people on this list are using Office2013 or
> Office 2010 if not something older. Microsoft and many companies
> support products for more than three years. People used Windows XP for
> ten
years and beyond.
>
>
>
> I never saw anything on this list that the problem accessing this
> petition has to do with the version of JAWS being used. I get the
> impression that people using more recent versions of JAWS are
> experiencing
the same problem.
>
> In other words, I didn't see anything in this thread that JAWS 13
> can't do the job and can't be used affectively for all sorts of tasks.
> It seems to me that people are just jumping to conclusions and using
> this message to make a point rather than help a JAWS user solve their
> problem and submit this petition.
>
>
>
> Obviously, I can't tell people what words they can and cannot use, but
> I think information can be provided in a more sympathetic tone. I'm
> sure most people running JAWS 13 would like to upgrade, and they don't
> need to have their faces rubbed in the fact that they can't afford an
update.
>
> No one may have intended to make anyone feel bad but communication is
> a two way street, and people need to take into account not just how
> their words are intended but how they may be received.
>
>
>
>> On 16/01/16 22:08, Buddy Brannan via nfbcs wrote:
>>
>> The unfortunate reality is that you simply *can't* do everything with
>
>> one
>
> screen reader. There's certainly no reason not to have more than one
> if you can afford one, because NVDA is free software. Both definitions
> of
free.
>
> Window-Eyes is even no cost if you have Office 2010 or newer.
>
>
>> The other unfortunate reality is that Jaws 13.0 *is* antiquated, and
>
>> that
>
> isn't meant to make anyone feel bad, it's just a fact. You really
> can't use a three year old version of anything and expect it to behave
> correctly with something that's newer. It just isn't realistic.
>
>
>> --
>
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>
>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>
>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>
>> Email: <mailto:buddy at brannan.name> buddy at brannan.name
>
>
>
>
>
>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 10:55 PM, Christopher Chaltain via nfbcs
>
> < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>
>>> I agree that it's good to have NVDA in your tool box regardless of
>
>>> what
>
> version of JAWS you're running, but it isn't always possible for
> people to keep up with a product like JAWS, and using two different
> screen readers can be frustrating. I think it's OK to suggest JAWS,
> but there's no need to make anyone feel bad by calling the tools they
> can
afford to use "antiquated".
>
>
>>> On 16/01/16 15:18, Jude DaShiell via nfbcs wrote:
>
>>>> This is why when jaws users know they're not going to be able to
>
>>>> update jaws it's a good idea to have installed nvda to do the jobs
>
>>>> their antiquated version of jaws can no longer do.
>
>
>>>> On Sat, 16 Jan 2016, Mike Freeman via nfbcs wrote:
>
>
>>>>> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2016 16:03:52
>
>>>>> From: Mike Freeman via nfbcs < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>
>>>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <
>>>>> <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>
>>>>> Cc: Mike Freeman < <mailto:k7uij at panix.com> k7uij at panix.com>
>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>
>>>>> JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>
>
>>>>> excess ability does not imply backward compatibility. Your version
>
>>>>> of jaws is several versions out of date. I suspect it may be part
>
>>>>> of the problem.
>
>
>>>>> Mike Freeman
>
>
>
>>>>>> On Jan 16, 2016, at 12:52, Jennifer Aberdeen via nfbcs
>
>>>>>> < <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>
>>>>>> Why is this patition not accessible? When I click on the submit
>
>>>>>> button, in different ways; enter, space, left mouse button on the
>
>>>>>> num pad, nothing happens.
>
>
>>>>>> I'm using jaws 13 with win 7 and IE 11.
>
>
>>>>>> Jen
>
>
>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Curtis Chong via nfbcs
>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 1:38 PM
>
>>>>>> To: <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>
>>>>>> Cc: Curtis Chong
>
>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
>
>>>>>> JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>
>
>>>>>> Greetings:
>
>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 12, 2016, the National Federation of the
>>>>>> Blind
>
>>>>>> launched a petition (the link to which is provided below) calling
>
>>>>>> on the Obama administration promptly to release the long-awaited
>
>>>>>> ADA internet regulations. On the 20th anniversary of the
>>>>>> Americans
>
>>>>>> with Disabilities Act (way back in 2010), President Obama said
>
>>>>>> that he would issue regulations implementing the requirement for
>
>>>>>> accessible websites, noting that they would be "the most
>>>>>> important
>
>>>>>> updates to the ADA since its original enactment."
>
>>>>>> President Obama now says that the regulations will not be
>>>>>> released
>
>>>>>> until 2018, after he leaves office.
>
>
>>>>>> For those of who are blind, inaccessible websites can make it
>
>>>>>> impossible to apply for jobs, participate in online courses, or
>
>>>>>> conduct vital personal financial business. Website developers
>>>>>> need
>
>>>>>> guidance on how to comply with the law. Failing to provide that
>
>>>>>> guidance is irresponsible and inconsistent with President Obama's
>
>>>>>> expressed commitment to civil rights.
>
>
>>>>>> If you are interested in signing the petition (and I hope you
>
>>>>>> are), point your browser to this link.
>
>
>>>>>> <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-us-department-j
>>>>>> us>
> https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-us-department-jus
>
>>>>>> tice-promp
>
>
>>>>>> tly-release-ada-internet-regulations
>
>
>>>>>> As an example of the need for these regulations, some JAWS users
>
>>>>>> running Internet Explorer have reported a problem with the "sign"
>
>>>>>> button when attempting to add their name. Here are some solutions
>
>>>>>> to help mitigate that problem.
>
>
>>>>>> 1. Try routing the JAWS cursor to PC (Insert+Numpad
>
>>>>>> Minus), and
>
>>>>>> pressing the left mouse button (Numpad Slash), and the "sign"
>
>>>>>> button will be selected.
>
>
>>>>>> 2. Alternatively, you can sign the petition using the
>
> Mozilla
>
>>>>>> Firefox browser.
>
>
>>>>>> The petition is reported to be accessible using iOS devices such
>
>>>>>> as the iPad or iPhone.
>
>
>>>>>> Cordially,
>
>
>>>>>> Curtis Chong, President
>
>>>>>> National Federation of the Blind in Computer Science
>
>
>
>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>
>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>
>>>>>> <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>
>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>
>>>>>> for
>
>>>>>> nfbcs:
>
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/freespirit328%4
>
>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>
>
>
>>>>>> ---
>
>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>
>>>>>> <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>
>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>
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>
>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org>
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>>>>>> .c>
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>
>>>>>> om
>
>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>
>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>
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>
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>>>>> ix>
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>
>>>>> .com
>
>
>
>
>>> --
>
>>> Christopher (CJ)
>
>>> chaltain at Gmail
>
>
>>> _______________________________________________
>
>>> nfbcs mailing list
>
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>
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>>> na>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.na
>
>>> me
>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> m
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Christopher (CJ)
>
> chaltain at Gmail
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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