[nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations

Bryan Schulz b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
Mon Jan 25 16:05:20 UTC 2016 

No,
the point is there was no problem filling out the form and all the b'n is
just wearing out the delete key!
It only took about 30 seconds to type your info and tab to the submit button
then five seconds to read the confirmation email and hit the link!
Bryan


-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Doug Lee via
nfbcs
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 4:16 AM
To: Peter Donahue via nfbcs
Cc: Doug Lee
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations

I think there is confusion here between primary and secondary goals,
and on who needs to hear what; so here's a summary of how I see the
situation:

1. We wanted the Obama administration to see that a lot of us want something
done, so we went to an
administration site and filed a petition asking them to do it. At this
stage, it should be clear that filing
our petition on our own site would be profoundly useless as no one would
even know to come looking for it. It
would be like announcing to a judge, "I am accused of a crime I did not
commit, so I need you to come to my
house on Thursday to preside over a hearing in my defense." The judge would
naturally say, "I'll preside here
in my court, and my next opening is Friday. See you then."

2. We needed the administration to see a lot of names, so we went to our own
mailing lists and asked blind
people to sign the petition. Of course this request for help itself needed
to be accessible, and it was - it
was on our own lists and such.

3. We found that the administration's site was not wonderfully accessible,
so we provided help to blind people
who wanted to sign their names on it anyway. Again, this help was provided
accessibly.

4. We might want the petition itself to be made more accessible. For that,
we would go to those who run that
site and make our case. Making that case here, on our internal lists, is
again rather useless because the
right people won't hear us.

I understand your frustration, and your feeling the irony of this
accessibility issue on a petition about
accessibility. But it is important to keep straight who we are trying to
talk to and how to get precisely
those people to hear us, for each case when we want something done.

Regarding the Facebook comment: Facebook had something to offer people, not
something to ask of them. If you want to ask
something of people, you go to them. You don't make them come to you just to
find out what you want. Our primary goal
here is to ask something of the government, so we went to a government site
and filed our request.


On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 08:39:50PM -0600, NFBCS mailing list wrote:
Hello Dave and everyone,

	The only way to put these notions to the test is for the NFB to host
such petitions on its own Website. Facebook etc were unknowns at one time
but people spread the word and they're now house-hold social networking
sites. Obviously if I have information of interest and want to direct
Internet traffic to it and want visitors to not encounter accessibility
issues I would host such information on a Website usable by all including
those who use assistive technology. Furthermore those who visit a Website
designed with accessibility in mind would see an example of how a Website
must be designed that is usable by all visitors including the blind. If the
NFB did this with this petition we wouldn't have our inboxes cluttered by
messages from those having difficulty signing the petition to wade through.
Mary and I support the spirit of what we want to see the Obama
Administration to to improve Internet accessibility but not at the expense
of having difficulty accessing the very petitions we're being asked to sign.
This is America and there must be different approaches for solving the same
issue that appeal to the needs of different people. If organizations like
the NFB want us to sign petitions of this nature they had better be hosted
on Websites usable by the blind including the organization's own accessible
Website. People come after organizations because they're made to do so by
said organizations hypocritical actions!

Peter Donahue



-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews via
nfbcs
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2016 6:33 PM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
Cc: David Andrews
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the
JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations

Peter, get off your high horse. You certainly seem willing to go after the
NFB at every opportunity.

While the accessibility problems are unfortunate, they are also an
opportunity to work with the web site developers.

I presume this site was picked because it is an official Obama
administration site, and they have said they will seriously consider
anything that gets 100,000 signatures.

I would guess that if we hosted the petition, we would not get such
consideration.

Dave

At 03:39 PM 1/16/2016, you wrote:


>Good afternoon everyone,
>
>     It's because the NFB acted irresponsibly and used and placed the 
> petition on a Website with known accessibility issues and no way to 
> fix it. The organization has its in-house content management system 
> and could have hosted it there where it can be managed by in-house 
> technology staff who better understand the business of making Internet 
> resources accessible. I've seen this organization go down this road 
> many times and it's time for it to stop!
>
>Peter Donahue
>
>
>
>Jennifer Aberdeen via nfbcs wrote:
>>Why is this patition not accessible? When I click on the submit 
>>button, in different ways; enter, space, left mouse button on the num 
>>pad, nothing happens.
>>
>>I'm using jaws 13 with win 7 and IE 11.
>>
>>Jen
>>
>>-----Original Message----- From: Curtis Chong via nfbcs
>>Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 1:38 PM
>>To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>Cc: Curtis Chong
>>Subject: [nfbcs] Petition Asking President Obama To Direct the 
>>JusticeDepartment to Issue ADA Internet Regulations
>>
>>Greetings:
>>
>>On Tuesday, January 12, 2016, the National Federation of the Blind 
>>launched a petition (the link to which is provided below) calling on 
>>the Obama administration promptly to release the long-awaited ADA 
>>internet regulations. On the 20th anniversary of the Americans with 
>>Disabilities Act (way back in 2010), President Obama said that he 
>>would issue regulations implementing the requirement for accessible 
>>websites, noting that they would be "the most important updates to the ADA
since its original enactment."
>>President Obama now says that the regulations will not be released 
>>until 2018, after he leaves office.
>>
>>For those of who are blind, inaccessible websites can make it 
>>impossible to apply for jobs, participate in online courses, or 
>>conduct vital personal financial business. Website developers need 
>>guidance on how to comply with the law. Failing to provide that 
>>guidance is irresponsible and inconsistent with President Obama's
expressed commitment to civil rights.
>>
>>If you are interested in signing the petition (and I hope you are), 
>>point your browser to this link.
>>
>>https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/direct-us-department-justice
>>-promp
>>tly-release-ada-internet-regulations
>>
>>As an example of the need for these regulations, some JAWS users 
>>running Internet Explorer have reported a problem with the "sign" 
>>button when attempting to add their name. Here are some solutions to 
>>help mitigate that problem.
>>
>>1.            Try routing the JAWS cursor to PC (Insert+Numpad Minus), and
>>pressing  the left mouse button (Numpad Slash), and the "sign" button 
>>will be selected.
>>
>>2.            Alternatively, you can sign the petition using the Mozilla
>>Firefox browser.
>>
>>The petition is reported to be accessible using iOS devices such as 
>>the iPad or iPhone.
>>
>>Cordially,
>>
>>Curtis Chong, President
>>National Federation of the Blind in Computer Science

         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org


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-- 
Doug Lee                 dgl at dlee.org                http://www.dlee.org
SSB BART Group           doug.lee at ssbbartgroup.com
http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
"Pray devoutly, but hammer stoutly."
--Sir William G. Benham

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