[nfbcs] Future goals for the division

Wed Jul 20 19:36:00 UTC 2016

However, some older students need role models as well. More older people are
going back to school than ever before. If the NFB focuses its efforts on
younger students, the growing population of older students will be left in
the dust. They are more than role models and you cannot assume an older
student has the experience to guide younger students to success. If it
appears to someone that the organization focuses on a target audience, then
they probably are doing so.

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cricket Bidleman
via nfbcs
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 2:07 PM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Cricket Bidleman <cricketbidleman at gmail.com>; Bryan Schulz
<b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Future goals for the division

Mr. Schulz,

Would you mind changing the email subject? It doesn't seem (to me
anyway) to quite belong on this thread. Thanks. Also, the NFB is not just
interested in young students, though I can understand how you might think
that to be the case as of late. Older role models are just as important,
since young people tend to emulate respected elders. At least somewhat.
Older folks show us how to effectively contribute to and be a part of
society. Thanks.

Respectfully,
Cricket Bidleman

On 7/20/16, Bryan Schulz via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would like info and thoughts of how older people can get into 
> cs/help desk jobs and am so sick of the nfb only being interested in 
> young students.
> The situation of someone going down the technical college road and 
> only ending up with an associates degree isn't fun and gaining certs 
> hasn't helped at all.
> Bryan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn 
> Webster via nfbcs
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 12:20 PM
> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
> Cc: Kathryn Webster; 'Jim Barbour'
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Future goals for the division
>
> Debee and all,
>
> 	I would be exceedingly interested in contributing to this. I'd like 
> to echo Jim's suggestion of a wiki as that would be easy to maintain, 
> edit, and expand.
> In terms of publicity, I'm eager to take the lead on marketing any new 
> intiatives to help blind students through our master database and website.
> Collaboration amongst divisions is a significant goal of mine, and I 
> see the CS Division as an ideal place to continue that effort. Our 
> student division leaders, particularly Bryan Duarte and myself, are 
> both very in touch with CS and student issues, so there is some place 
> for us to start.
> If our CS Division leadership chooses to move forward with this idea, 
> count me in on all accounts. I am more than happy to help with 
> whatever is necessary in kickstarting this effort.
>
> What a fabulous idea!
>
> Best,
> Kathryn
>
> Kathryn Webster
> President | National Association of Blind Students
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Barbour 
> via nfbcs
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 1:07 PM
> To: Deborah Armstrong via nfbcs
> Cc: Jim Barbour
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Future goals for the division
>
> I think Debee has a great idea.  I actually think it's a very good 
> application for a wiki.
>
> One person won't know everything about what is accessible and what 
> isn't, even in the developer and IT focused worlds.
>
> If we agree, I'd be happy to work with Curtis W on setting up a wiki 
> and start populating it.  I'd like to hear from folks that we think 
> this is worth collaborating on.
>
> Jim
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 04:54:45PM +0000, Deborah Armstrong via nfbcs
> wrote:
>> >I'm interested in hearing from folks on this list about things 
>> >they'd
> like to see the NFB in Computer Science do in the future
>> I'm changing the subject line so people won't skip over it.
>>
>> I think one of the most crucial things is to put together an online 
>> paper,
> that is updated regularly, that spells out what one needs to know to 
> get started in any computer science related field. This would be 
> different from what sighted people need to know; it would focus on 
> which current tools are accessible, which aren't, and include the 
> resources such as books or online training that were discussed over in the
other thread.
>>
>> I work at a college, and I know new blind students get stymied by the
> simplest things because they lack experience and so do their sighted 
> helpers. For example, I heard of a student who dropped a Linux class 
> which was all command-line based, because the rest of the class was 
> using telnet built in to Windows to log in to the class server. Not 
> sure why they used anything this insecure, but I wasn't administering 
> that system and heard about it third-hand. And JAWS was not accurately 
> reading what appeared onscreen, nor was it tracking the cursor when 
> the student tried to use Emacs. As a Linux-head I had to laugh a bit 
> about the ignorance that lead the student and his professor to 
> conclude the coursework was inaccessible, but it's not a laughing matter,
when a beginner doesn't know where to turn.
>
>>
>> The document could have sections: What you need to know to Learn C++" 
>> or
> "What you need to know in your first Visual Basic Class" etc.
>>
>> I also think we need to nail down and possibly explain the reasons 
>> behind
> the inaccessibility of many current tools. For example, if the QT4 
> library is used in creating interfaces, screen readers only partially 
> identify or even recognize the existence of controls. If in learning 
> SQL the difference between inner joins and outer joins is explained 
> through the use of diagrams only, then it's not going to make sense to 
> any blind student. That caused me, an experience programmer to drop a 
> course just last year. I would have loved to be able to find a paper 
> that outlined where I could go to locate a book that explained these 
> concepts in plain English.
>>
>> Another thought about UML: wild idea here, but how about digital 
>> tactile
> diagrams of the symbols that could be embossed? I know different 
> embossers have different codes for doing graphics, but someone who 
> knows more about this than I could perhaps take the lead here. A 
> student could simply emboss the shapes, or get their school to do it, 
> and then using post-it note glue which comes in sticks, post their 
> charts on a classroom wall, doing homework along with a sighted class.
>>
>> One way in which I can contribute is writing, and I'd be happy to 
>> take the
> lead on that part.
>>
>> --Debee
>>
>>
>>
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