[nfbcs] Help for older students

Wed Jul 20 20:26:25 UTC 2016

I'm sorry, but I really can't help you with this. Like I said, contact
Mr. Riccobono. If he can't help you with what you need, maybe he can
at least give you some insight. I am not in a position where I can
help you the way you want, and there's nothing I can do about it. Most
people on this listserve aren't either.

On 7/20/16, Bryan Schulz via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The thing is college was about 20 years ago and nothing came of the
> promises
> with placement or a second so called guarantee after completing a
> specialized programming program graded by it managers.
> Bryan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Cricket Bidleman
> via nfbcs
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 2:51 PM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
> Cc: Cricket Bidleman; Bryan Schulz
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Help for older students
>
> Hi,
>
> Allow me to remind you that an intern can be an older student as well.
> Anyone in education. If you're in grad school, apply to the internship
> if you want to. That announcement did not talk about age limits. In
> addition, there will be jobs available. No age restrictions there.
>
> On 7/20/16, Bryan Schulz via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Just another example along with the nfb focus on stem workshops was the
>> post
>> about nasa interns.
>> Bryan
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
>> via nfbcs
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 1:20 PM
>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>> Cc: Tracy Carcione
>> Subject: [nfbcs] Help for older students
>>
>> Hi Brian S.
>> I understand your frustration.  I think it's very difficult for an older
>> person to find any kind of tech job.  Companies figure an older person
>> won't
>> be up on the latest whatever, and they'd rather pay some young person
>> peanuts and work them 20-hour days.  Me, I have other things to do than
>> work, and I have expenses, and need health insurance.
>> I think what people are discussing would help anyone trying to learn a
>> new
>> language, or make a career change, but I think there are other systemic
>> social problems hitting older people looking for something better than
>> unskilled work.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz
> via
>> nfbcs
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 1:55 PM
>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>> Cc: Bryan Schulz
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Future goals for the division
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like info and thoughts of how older people can get into cs/help
>> desk
>> jobs and am so sick of the nfb only being interested in young students.
>> The situation of someone going down the technical college road and only
>> ending up with an associates degree isn't fun and gaining certs hasn't
>> helped at all.
>> Bryan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn
>> Webster
>> via nfbcs
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 12:20 PM
>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>> Cc: Kathryn Webster; 'Jim Barbour'
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Future goals for the division
>>
>> Debee and all,
>>
>> 	I would be exceedingly interested in contributing to this. I'd like
>> to echo Jim's suggestion of a wiki as that would be easy to maintain,
> edit,
>> and expand.
>> In terms of publicity, I'm eager to take the lead on marketing any new
>> intiatives to help blind students through our master database and
>> website.
>> Collaboration amongst divisions is a significant goal of mine, and I see
>> the
>> CS Division as an ideal place to continue that effort. Our student
> division
>> leaders, particularly Bryan Duarte and myself, are both very in touch
>> with
>> CS and student issues, so there is some place for us to start.
>> If our CS Division leadership chooses to move forward with this idea,
> count
>> me in on all accounts. I am more than happy to help with whatever is
>> necessary in kickstarting this effort.
>>
>> What a fabulous idea!
>>
>> Best,
>> Kathryn
>>
>> Kathryn Webster
>> President | National Association of Blind Students
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Barbour
>> via
>> nfbcs
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 1:07 PM
>> To: Deborah Armstrong via nfbcs
>> Cc: Jim Barbour
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Future goals for the division
>>
>> I think Debee has a great idea.  I actually think it's a very good
>> application for a wiki.
>>
>> One person won't know everything about what is accessible and what isn't,
>> even in the developer and IT focused worlds.
>>
>> If we agree, I'd be happy to work with Curtis W on setting up a wiki and
>> start populating it.  I'd like to hear from folks that we think this is
>> worth collaborating on.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 04:54:45PM +0000, Deborah Armstrong via nfbcs
>> wrote:
>>> >I'm interested in hearing from folks on this list about things they'd
>> like to see the NFB in Computer Science do in the future
>>> I'm changing the subject line so people won't skip over it.
>>>
>>> I think one of the most crucial things is to put together an online
>>> paper,
>> that is updated regularly, that spells out what one needs to know to get
>> started in any computer science related field. This would be different
> from
>> what sighted people need to know; it would focus on which current tools
> are
>> accessible, which aren't, and include the resources such as books or
> online
>> training that were discussed over in the other thread.
>>>
>>> I work at a college, and I know new blind students get stymied by the
>> simplest things because they lack experience and so do their sighted
>> helpers. For example, I heard of a student who dropped a Linux class
>> which
>> was all command-line based, because the rest of the class was using
>> telnet
>> built in to Windows to log in to the class server. Not sure why they used
>> anything this insecure, but I wasn't administering that system and heard
>> about it third-hand. And JAWS was not accurately reading what appeared
>> onscreen, nor was it tracking the cursor when the student tried to use
>> Emacs. As a Linux-head I had to laugh a bit about the ignorance that lead
>> the student and his professor to conclude the coursework was
>> inaccessible,
>> but it's not a laughing matter, when a beginner doesn't know where to
> turn.
>>
>>>
>>> The document could have sections: What you need to know to Learn C++"
>>> or
>> "What you need to know in your first Visual Basic Class" etc.
>>>
>>> I also think we need to nail down and possibly explain the reasons
>>> behind
>> the inaccessibility of many current tools. For example, if the QT4
>> library
>> is used in creating interfaces, screen readers only partially identify or
>> even recognize the existence of controls. If in learning SQL the
> difference
>> between inner joins and outer joins is explained through the use of
>> diagrams
>> only, then it's not going to make sense to any blind student. That caused
>> me, an experience programmer to drop a course just last year. I would
>> have
>> loved to be able to find a paper that outlined where I could go to locate
> a
>> book that explained these concepts in plain English.
>>>
>>> Another thought about UML: wild idea here, but how about digital
>>> tactile
>> diagrams of the symbols that could be embossed? I know different
>> embossers
>> have different codes for doing graphics, but someone who knows more about
>> this than I could perhaps take the lead here. A student could simply
> emboss
>> the shapes, or get their school to do it, and then using post-it note
>> glue
>> which comes in sticks, post their charts on a classroom wall, doing
>> homework
>> along with a sighted class.
>>>
>>> One way in which I can contribute is writing, and I'd be happy to take
>>> the
>> lead on that part.
>>>
>>> --Debee
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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