[nfbcs] Help for older students

Thu Jul 21 01:18:39 UTC 2016

In addition, it's good to know why employers fall into age 
discrimination and then counter that on your resume and in your 
interview. Don't let them think you can't learn new technologies or that 
you just want a job where you can be an in house retiree. Show on your 
resume and in your cover letter that you're still learning new 
technologies. Volunteer to work on open source projects to show that 
you're going to bring some excitement and energy to the job.

On 20/07/16 13:47, Deborah Armstrong via nfbcs wrote:
> I think you have to market your skills as an older person, your experience is just as valuable as the energy the younger folks can offer. Here in Silicon valley, the big names like Google and Facebook are seeking out a younger crowd. But in interviewing, I found that all the smaller companies that make products that support Silicon valley are often managed by older folks who want steadiness, reliability and experience over everything else.
>
> Last year, I was pink-slipped, which in the academic world means they intend to lay you off if the state doesn't pony up the money to finance your position next year. I kept my job, but meanwhile I was out interviewing. I got a job offer from SugarSync, a competitor to Dropbox. In that job, had I taken it I would have done a variety of things, including some light code-writing, version tracking,  maintaining the customer knowledgebase, being a contact point for large corporate customers, writing a manual -- the product had none -- and fixing some flaky JavaScript on their pages. That was the list of jobs they gave me at the time. The big selling point for them was that I could readily move between these different roles. They were impressed, that unlike the younger folks they interviewed, I had experience doing this stuff and I wasn't so arrogant I didn't mind writing code one day and helping old ladies configure their iPHONE app the next.
>  They were quite disappointed that I ended up turning down their offer. My blindness was simply not a factor and my age even less so. Their biggest concern was that one of their venture capital angels was allergic to my golden retriever!
>
> --Debee
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via nfbcs
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 11:20 AM
> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
> Cc: Tracy Carcione
> Subject: [nfbcs] Help for older students
>
> Hi Brian S.
> I understand your frustration.  I think it's very difficult for an older person to find any kind of tech job.  Companies figure an older person won't be up on the latest whatever, and they'd rather pay some young person peanuts and work them 20-hour days.  Me, I have other things to do than work, and I have expenses, and need health insurance.
> I think what people are discussing would help anyone trying to learn a new language, or make a career change, but I think there are other systemic social problems hitting older people looking for something better than unskilled work.
> Tracy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz via nfbcs
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 1:55 PM
> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
> Cc: Bryan Schulz
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Future goals for the division
>
> Hi,
>
> I would like info and thoughts of how older people can get into cs/help desk jobs and am so sick of the nfb only being interested in young students.
> The situation of someone going down the technical college road and only ending up with an associates degree isn't fun and gaining certs hasn't helped at all.
> Bryan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Webster via nfbcs
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 12:20 PM
> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
> Cc: Kathryn Webster; 'Jim Barbour'
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Future goals for the division
>
> Debee and all,
>
> 	I would be exceedingly interested in contributing to this. I'd like to echo Jim's suggestion of a wiki as that would be easy to maintain, edit, and expand.
> In terms of publicity, I'm eager to take the lead on marketing any new intiatives to help blind students through our master database and website.
> Collaboration amongst divisions is a significant goal of mine, and I see the CS Division as an ideal place to continue that effort. Our student division leaders, particularly Bryan Duarte and myself, are both very in touch with CS and student issues, so there is some place for us to start.
> If our CS Division leadership chooses to move forward with this idea, count me in on all accounts. I am more than happy to help with whatever is necessary in kickstarting this effort.
>
> What a fabulous idea!
>
> Best,
> Kathryn
>
> Kathryn Webster
> President | National Association of Blind Students
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Barbour via nfbcs
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 1:07 PM
> To: Deborah Armstrong via nfbcs
> Cc: Jim Barbour
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Future goals for the division
>
> I think Debee has a great idea.  I actually think it's a very good application for a wiki.
>
> One person won't know everything about what is accessible and what isn't, even in the developer and IT focused worlds.
>
> If we agree, I'd be happy to work with Curtis W on setting up a wiki and start populating it.  I'd like to hear from folks that we think this is worth collaborating on.
>
> Jim
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 04:54:45PM +0000, Deborah Armstrong via nfbcs wrote:
>>> I'm interested in hearing from folks on this list about things they'd
> like to see the NFB in Computer Science do in the future
>> I'm changing the subject line so people won't skip over it.
>>
>> I think one of the most crucial things is to put together an online
>> paper,
> that is updated regularly, that spells out what one needs to know to get started in any computer science related field. This would be different from what sighted people need to know; it would focus on which current tools are accessible, which aren't, and include the resources such as books or online training that were discussed over in the other thread.
>>
>> I work at a college, and I know new blind students get stymied by the
> simplest things because they lack experience and so do their sighted helpers. For example, I heard of a student who dropped a Linux class which was all command-line based, because the rest of the class was using telnet built in to Windows to log in to the class server. Not sure why they used anything this insecure, but I wasn't administering that system and heard about it third-hand. And JAWS was not accurately reading what appeared onscreen, nor was it tracking the cursor when the student tried to use Emacs. As a Linux-head I had to laugh a bit about the ignorance that lead the student and his professor to conclude the coursework was inaccessible, but it's not a laughing matter, when a beginner doesn't know where to turn.
>>
>> The document could have sections: What you need to know to Learn C++"
>> or
> "What you need to know in your first Visual Basic Class" etc.
>>
>> I also think we need to nail down and possibly explain the reasons
>> behind
> the inaccessibility of many current tools. For example, if the QT4 library is used in creating interfaces, screen readers only partially identify or even recognize the existence of controls. If in learning SQL the difference between inner joins and outer joins is explained through the use of diagrams only, then it's not going to make sense to any blind student. That caused me, an experience programmer to drop a course just last year. I would have loved to be able to find a paper that outlined where I could go to locate a book that explained these concepts in plain English.
>>
>> Another thought about UML: wild idea here, but how about digital
>> tactile
> diagrams of the symbols that could be embossed? I know different embossers have different codes for doing graphics, but someone who knows more about this than I could perhaps take the lead here. A student could simply emboss the shapes, or get their school to do it, and then using post-it note glue which comes in sticks, post their charts on a classroom wall, doing homework along with a sighted class.
>>
>> One way in which I can contribute is writing, and I'd be happy to take
>> the
> lead on that part.
>>
>> --Debee
>>
>>
>>
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chaltain at Gmail