[nfbcs] Help for older students

Thu Jul 21 02:06:24 UTC 2016

I read articles on finding jobs, e.g. resume writing, cover letter 
writing, interviewing and so on. These articles talk about age 
discrimination and how to fight it.

I never suggested that open source projects will pay the bills. I just 
said that they could be part of your resume and could be used to fight 
some of the stereotypes associated with older workers.

On 20/07/16 20:59, Andy B. via nfbcs wrote:
> How do you find out why they are doing this? Also, it is good to get
> involved with opensource projects, but in the long run, it fails to pay the
> bills.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Christopher
> Chaltain via nfbcs
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 9:19 PM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Christopher Chaltain <chaltain at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Help for older students
>
> In addition, it's good to know why employers fall into age discrimination
> and then counter that on your resume and in your interview. Don't let them
> think you can't learn new technologies or that you just want a job where you
> can be an in house retiree. Show on your resume and in your cover letter
> that you're still learning new technologies. Volunteer to work on open
> source projects to show that you're going to bring some excitement and
> energy to the job.
>
>
> On 20/07/16 13:47, Deborah Armstrong via nfbcs wrote:
>> I think you have to market your skills as an older person, your experience
> is just as valuable as the energy the younger folks can offer. Here in
> Silicon valley, the big names like Google and Facebook are seeking out a
> younger crowd. But in interviewing, I found that all the smaller companies
> that make products that support Silicon valley are often managed by older
> folks who want steadiness, reliability and experience over everything else.
>>
>> Last year, I was pink-slipped, which in the academic world means they
> intend to lay you off if the state doesn't pony up the money to finance your
> position next year. I kept my job, but meanwhile I was out interviewing. I
> got a job offer from SugarSync, a competitor to Dropbox. In that job, had I
> taken it I would have done a variety of things, including some light
> code-writing, version tracking,  maintaining the customer knowledgebase,
> being a contact point for large corporate customers, writing a manual -- the
> product had none -- and fixing some flaky JavaScript on their pages. That
> was the list of jobs they gave me at the time. The big selling point for
> them was that I could readily move between these different roles. They were
> impressed, that unlike the younger folks they interviewed, I had experience
> doing this stuff and I wasn't so arrogant I didn't mind writing code one day
> and helping old ladies configure their iPHONE app the next.
>>  They were quite disappointed that I ended up turning down their offer. My
> blindness was simply not a factor and my age even less so. Their biggest
> concern was that one of their venture capital angels was allergic to my
> golden retriever!
>>
>> --Debee
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
>> Carcione via nfbcs
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 11:20 AM
>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>> Cc: Tracy Carcione
>> Subject: [nfbcs] Help for older students
>>
>> Hi Brian S.
>> I understand your frustration.  I think it's very difficult for an older
> person to find any kind of tech job.  Companies figure an older person won't
> be up on the latest whatever, and they'd rather pay some young person
> peanuts and work them 20-hour days.  Me, I have other things to do than
> work, and I have expenses, and need health insurance.
>> I think what people are discussing would help anyone trying to learn a new
> language, or make a career change, but I think there are other systemic
> social problems hitting older people looking for something better than
> unskilled work.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan
>> Schulz via nfbcs
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 1:55 PM
>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>> Cc: Bryan Schulz
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Future goals for the division
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like info and thoughts of how older people can get into cs/help
> desk jobs and am so sick of the nfb only being interested in young students.
>> The situation of someone going down the technical college road and only
> ending up with an associates degree isn't fun and gaining certs hasn't
> helped at all.
>> Bryan
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn
>> Webster via nfbcs
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 12:20 PM
>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>> Cc: Kathryn Webster; 'Jim Barbour'
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Future goals for the division
>>
>> Debee and all,
>>
>> 	I would be exceedingly interested in contributing to this. I'd like
> to echo Jim's suggestion of a wiki as that would be easy to maintain, edit,
> and expand.
>> In terms of publicity, I'm eager to take the lead on marketing any new
> intiatives to help blind students through our master database and website.
>> Collaboration amongst divisions is a significant goal of mine, and I see
> the CS Division as an ideal place to continue that effort. Our student
> division leaders, particularly Bryan Duarte and myself, are both very in
> touch with CS and student issues, so there is some place for us to start.
>> If our CS Division leadership chooses to move forward with this idea,
> count me in on all accounts. I am more than happy to help with whatever is
> necessary in kickstarting this effort.
>>
>> What a fabulous idea!
>>
>> Best,
>> Kathryn
>>
>> Kathryn Webster
>> President | National Association of Blind Students
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jim Barbour
>> via nfbcs
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 1:07 PM
>> To: Deborah Armstrong via nfbcs
>> Cc: Jim Barbour
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Future goals for the division
>>
>> I think Debee has a great idea.  I actually think it's a very good
> application for a wiki.
>>
>> One person won't know everything about what is accessible and what isn't,
> even in the developer and IT focused worlds.
>>
>> If we agree, I'd be happy to work with Curtis W on setting up a wiki and
> start populating it.  I'd like to hear from folks that we think this is
> worth collaborating on.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 04:54:45PM +0000, Deborah Armstrong via nfbcs
> wrote:
>>>> I'm interested in hearing from folks on this list about things
>>>> they'd
>> like to see the NFB in Computer Science do in the future
>>> I'm changing the subject line so people won't skip over it.
>>>
>>> I think one of the most crucial things is to put together an online
>>> paper,
>> that is updated regularly, that spells out what one needs to know to get
> started in any computer science related field. This would be different from
> what sighted people need to know; it would focus on which current tools are
> accessible, which aren't, and include the resources such as books or online
> training that were discussed over in the other thread.
>>>
>>> I work at a college, and I know new blind students get stymied by the
>> simplest things because they lack experience and so do their sighted
> helpers. For example, I heard of a student who dropped a Linux class which
> was all command-line based, because the rest of the class was using telnet
> built in to Windows to log in to the class server. Not sure why they used
> anything this insecure, but I wasn't administering that system and heard
> about it third-hand. And JAWS was not accurately reading what appeared
> onscreen, nor was it tracking the cursor when the student tried to use
> Emacs. As a Linux-head I had to laugh a bit about the ignorance that lead
> the student and his professor to conclude the coursework was inaccessible,
> but it's not a laughing matter, when a beginner doesn't know where to turn.
>>>
>>> The document could have sections: What you need to know to Learn C++"
>>> or
>> "What you need to know in your first Visual Basic Class" etc.
>>>
>>> I also think we need to nail down and possibly explain the reasons
>>> behind
>> the inaccessibility of many current tools. For example, if the QT4 library
> is used in creating interfaces, screen readers only partially identify or
> even recognize the existence of controls. If in learning SQL the difference
> between inner joins and outer joins is explained through the use of diagrams
> only, then it's not going to make sense to any blind student. That caused
> me, an experience programmer to drop a course just last year. I would have
> loved to be able to find a paper that outlined where I could go to locate a
> book that explained these concepts in plain English.
>>>
>>> Another thought about UML: wild idea here, but how about digital
>>> tactile
>> diagrams of the symbols that could be embossed? I know different embossers
> have different codes for doing graphics, but someone who knows more about
> this than I could perhaps take the lead here. A student could simply emboss
> the shapes, or get their school to do it, and then using post-it note glue
> which comes in sticks, post their charts on a classroom wall, doing homework
> along with a sighted class.
>>>
>>> One way in which I can contribute is writing, and I'd be happy to
>>> take the
>> lead on that part.
>>>
>>> --Debee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
> --
> Christopher (CJ)
> chaltain at Gmail
>
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-- 
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail