[nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against Disabled

Star Gazer pickrellrebecca at gmail.com
Fri Mar 11 16:59:02 UTC 2016 

				John is absolutely correct here. Unless
you're working as an independent contractor, employers purchase necessairy
job materials all the time.

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G Heim via
nfbcs
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 10:37 AM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Cc: John G Heim <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against
Disabled

But employers pick up the tab for employees equipment all the time. 
Imagine a sighted person getting hired at a company that made accessibility
tools. Everybody else who works at the company is blind. 
They sit him down in front of a computer with no monitor, just a headset. He
says, "I'm going to need a monitor." And the boss says, "Are you kidding?
You expect me to go out and spend my own money on some stupid visual device
just for you?"




On 03/11/2016 07:02 AM, Gary Wunder via nfbcs wrote:
> I have a reasonable understanding of the ADA when it comes to how 
> reasonable accommodation is interpreted, but I would argue for any 
> client who pressed the state agency to provide the initial equipment 
> for a job. It is one thing to demonstrate to an employer that I have 
> worth and then expect him to pick up the same cost that he does for 
> others, but I think it is a very different thing for an employer who 
> doesn't know me or much of anything about blind people to be told that 
> I will need screen reading software, a notetaker, and perhaps a 
> scanner and some additional software. For the agency to drop the ball
after carrying it 90% of the way seems foolish to me.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve 
> Jacobson via nfbcs
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 4:21 PM
> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
> Cc: Steve Jacobson; 'Tracy Carcione'
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against 
> Disabled
>
> John,
>
> I think you raise some interesting points.  When I started working 
> some forty years ago, it was common thought that the agency for the 
> blind provided the equipment for a job.  Often this was a one-time 
> thing, and of course that has changed.  However, particularly with the 
> coming of ADA, but even before that, it became the employer's 
> responsibility to provide needed equipment as a reasonable 
> accommodation.  Whether it should be considered or not, that makes us 
> more expensive to hire for the same return, unless, as you say, we can 
> convince an employer that we will produce more.  However, I am 
> somewhat uneasy with the concept that we produce more to justify our 
> extra equipment because it may not be that easy to achieve.  A lot of 
> our reasonable accommodation needs are really pretty small for a large 
> company, but they can be an "Undo burden" on a small company which is 
> where many jobs are.  Also, many large companies budget at a 
> department level and one's equipment may need to be paid for by the 
> department that does the hiring.  A small expense for a large company 
> might be much more substantial at the department level.  come
>
> I don't claim to have answers, but I believe this problem needs to be 
> considered.  Still, can one really claim discrimination if someone 
> else is hired who does not have reasonable accommodation needs?  I 
> know that some job applicants are told to iron out their reasonable 
> accommodation needs right away, and there is a case to be made for 
> that.  One needs to know if they can do the job for one thing.  But it 
> really exposes one's hand, so to speak, very early in the process.  
> Another employee who does not require any reasonable accommodations 
> but who had a family situation that causes them to require time off, 
> for example, won't reveal any of this until they have been hired.  We 
> need to look for answers to some of this as blind people because we are
the ones most effected.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G Heim 
> via nfbcs
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:51 AM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: John G Heim <jheim at math.wisc.edu>; Tracy Carcione 
> <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against 
> Disabled
>
> It'd be funny if it wasn't about putting bread on the table.
> Another thing in the comments that I think is of interest is that some 
> people blasted the research study saying it was stupid to disclose 
> that you are disabled in the cover letter. But both of our examples 
> show how futile it is to not disclose it.  You're going to end up at a 
> lot of interviews where you have absolutely no chance at the job. 
> There is always some chance you'll wow the interviewer into giving you 
> a chance, I suppose. Is it worth it? Just my opinion but I don't think 
> so. I think you are better off weeding those people out in the first
place.
>
> The last time I was applying for jobs, I made myself out to be Super 
> Blind Guy in my cover letter. Of course, I didn't actually use that 
> term in my cover letter but I made a point of emphasizing the things I 
> could do. I have competed in triathlonns, landscaped the front of my 
> house, done a lot of woodworking. For what it's worth, it seemed to work.
>
> You know about Super Blind Guy, right? He and his faithful guide dog 
> companion  go around righting wrongs with his razor sharp mind, super 
> hearing, echo location, and super sensitive touch. "Ah ha!" says Super 
> Blind Guy, "I knew the bill was counterfeit because it was dated 1936 
> and Andrew Jackson didn't appear on the twenty until 1938."
> On 03/10/2016 10:10 AM, Tracy Carcione via nfbcs wrote:
>> I once interviewed for a job, taking a bus, a train, and walking 
>> several blocks in Manhattan, only to find the interviewer could not 
>> be convinced I wouldn't need someone to lead me to the bathroom.  Grrrr.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G 
>> Heim via nfbcs
>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 11:03 AM
>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>> Cc: John G Heim
>> Subject: [nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against 
>> Disabled
>>
>>
> http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/02/upshot/fake-cover-letters-expose-
> discri
>> mination-against-disabled.html
>>
>> I think I have talked on this list about wanting to commission a 
>> study similar to the one mentioned in this article except with a 
>> blind applicant applying for IT jobs. The study has people with 
>> spinal injuries and Asperger's Syndrome applying for accounting jobs. 
>> They found disabled applicants were 26% less likely to get a call 
>> back. Of particular interest are some of the comments.
>>
>> "Given two candidates of roughly equal qualifications the rational
> decision
>> would be to hire the one without disabilities. It's going to be less 
>> expensive, on average . [...] So statistically, a disabled job 
>> applicant would need to be sufficiently better qualified for the job 
>> to overcome the disability to be the 'correct' choice."
>>
>> Long time readers of this list will know I've speculated about this 
>> effect for years. My guess is that this factor is much greater for 
>> blind
> applicants
>> than it is for the types of disabilities in the study. A blind person
> does,
>> in fact, have greater challenges to over come. But I suspect that 
>> even
> worse
>> is the lack of understanding about just how much a blind technologist 
>> can do. A perspective employer once flatly refused to interview me 
>> when she
> saw
>> that I was blind. She essentially accused me of faking my resume and
> simply
>> would not believe a blind person could use a computer.
>>
>>
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> --
> --
> John G. Heim; jheim at math.wisc.edu; sip://jheim@sip.linphone.org
>
>
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--
--
John G. Heim; jheim at math.wisc.edu; sip://jheim@sip.linphone.org


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