[nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination AgainstDisabled

Sat Mar 12 14:39:49 UTC 2016

I would like to share a few thoughts.  We must remember finding and keeping 
a job is one of the hardest things a person will do in their lives weather 
or not they are blind.  There are all types of miss-conceptions that will 
effect a interview process, sex, age, race even height and body shape.  I 
believe the most important things are as follows.

1. Showing a proven track record.  This can be from academics and or other 
work experiences.

2. Showing that you bring the proper tools to the job.  if it means getting 
a job showing willingness to provide your own access equipment goes a long 
way.  This shows that you are willing to do what it takes to complete the 
job.  If a company provides access equipment this is a bonus.  I have found 
that coming to a job with my own access equipment can get me in the door. 
after being an employee I have found that it is worth it to the company to 
help you with access equipment far offsets the costs to replace you.  I like 
this to an electrician or carpenter that must supply their own tools to 
work.  On the other side of this I once interviewed  a person that a large 
part of the interview was all the accommodations this person wanted or 
needed to work.  I can tell you that this was a big turn off.  Personally I 
have taken loans out for access equipment for me this was a good financial 
investment in my career and it has paid me back many times over.

3. Provide a complete set of refferences.  This goes a long way for 
interviewers that may have doughts about a blind prospect.

These things will not get you past people that have there mind set against 
blind people, my thoughts on this are your loss and I do not want to work 
for you anyway.

Pleas do not fall into the rut of I can not get a job because I am blind. 
One thing I do is make it my job to find a job, this is hard to do.  If a 
job is a 40h a week job then one should spend at least 40h a week finding a 
job.

Thanks for your time.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Christopher Chaltain via nfbcs
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2016 9:22 PM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
Cc: Christopher Chaltain
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination 
AgainstDisabled

The goal when you're applying for a job is to get to that next step in
the process. This is true whether you're blind or sighted. Your resume
is meant to get you to a screening interview with HR. Your goal in the
screening interview is to get to talk to the hiring manager and so on.

Obviously, you'll run into those prejudiced managers where it's a waste
of time and if you had disclosed your blindness, you might have saved
yourself some time and aggravation, but as others have said, those are
the cases where you should look into filing a complaint.

Although those narrow minded managers exist, there are a lot more
managers out there who just don't know. They see a bunch of candidates
who are all qualified and they start widdling down that list to a
manageable number. All things being equal between a few candidates,
except for blindness, then they may move that blind candidate down a few
places on the list just out of ignorance. If one of those candidates
higher on the list hits a home run in the interview then the blind
candidate may never get to talk to the hiring manager and the company
still got a qualified candidate.

I want to talk to those managers. I'm confident that if I'm in a face to
face interview, I'm going to impress them with what I've accomplished,
build a rapport with them and leave that interview knowing that they
know they're going to get a rock star if they hire me. I've participated
in a lot of interviews, both as a candidate and as a hiring manager, and
I know I interview well, and I'm confident that all things being equal,
my communication skills and leadership style are going to more than make
up for any perceived disadvantage I might have as a blind candidate.

As I said before, I don't go out of my way to disclose my blindness, but
as appropriate I do mention my blindness in my interests and job
experience. I also don't bring up my blindness in the interview, but I
do deal with it head on if it does come up.

On 11/03/16 09:15, John G Heim via nfbcs wrote:
> I don't know  ... In the example I gave, I stood up when my name was
> called, the woman saw that I had a guide dog and said she didn't want to
> interview me. I don't care how good you are at interviewing, you're not
> going to over come that. Tracy's story is similar. I've been in
> interviews like that too. When all they want to know is how you are
> going to get to the bathroom, no amount of interviewing skill is going
> to talk them out of it. These things are called prejudices  for a
> reason. They've made up their mind ahead of time.
>
> Take those comments from the woman who said it only makes sense to hire
> the non-disabled person since they'll be cheaper. Do you think you could
> talk her out of that during an interview? I really doubt it. People do
> tend to hire the candidate they hit it off with rather than the most
> qualified. But I think the vast majority of people like the woman who
> made that comment would say, "Wow, that blind guy was really great. Too
> bad we can't hire him."
>
> On 03/10/2016 10:14 PM, Christopher Chaltain via nfbcs wrote:
>> I've heard arguments on both sides of the debate as to whether to
>> disclose or not disclose. For me, I think I do well at face to face
>> interviews, so my whole goal during the job search is to get that face
>> to face interview. That being said, I don't hide the fact that I'm
>> blind on my resume, in my job applications or on my social networking
>> sites. I also don't volunteer that information if it comes up during a
>> screening interview over the phone, but I'm prepared to address it and
>> talk about my accommodations if it does come up.
>>
>> As far as accommodations go, I'm at a point in my life where I don't
>> have a problem purchasing my own accommodations. If laying out a few
>> thousand dollars is the difference  between being employed or
>> unemployed then I consider that money well spent. I understand not
>> everyone is in my financial situation, so I'm not saying this applies
>> to everyone.
>>
>> I haven't had to put this to the test yet. My previous job was at a
>> company that used Linux, so I was able to do my job using Ubuntu, Orca
>> and other free access tools. My current job is with the state
>> government, so I had no qualms expecting them to provide me a screen
>> reader.
>>
>> On 10/03/16 16:21, Steve Jacobson via nfbcs wrote:
>>> John,
>>>
>>> I think you raise some interesting points.  When I started working some
>>> forty years ago, it was common thought that the agency for the blind
>>> provided the equipment for a job.  Often this was a one-time thing,
>>> and of
>>> course that has changed.  However, particularly with the coming of
>>> ADA, but
>>> even before that, it became the employer's responsibility to provide
>>> needed
>>> equipment as a reasonable accommodation.  Whether it should be
>>> considered or
>>> not, that makes us more expensive to hire for the same return,
>>> unless, as
>>> you say, we can convince an employer that we will produce more.
>>> However, I
>>> am somewhat uneasy with the concept that we produce more to justify our
>>> extra equipment because it may not be that easy to achieve.  A lot of
>>> our
>>> reasonable accommodation needs are really pretty small for a large
>>> company,
>>> but they can be an "Undo burden" on a small company which is where
>>> many jobs
>>> are.  Also, many large companies budget at a department level and one's
>>> equipment may need to be paid for by the department that does the
>>> hiring.  A
>>> small expense for a large company might be much more substantial at the
>>> department level.  come
>>>
>>> I don't claim to have answers, but I believe this problem needs to be
>>> considered.  Still, can one really claim discrimination if someone
>>> else is
>>> hired who does not have reasonable accommodation needs?  I know that
>>> some
>>> job applicants are told to iron out their reasonable accommodation needs
>>> right away, and there is a case to be made for that.  One needs to
>>> know if
>>> they can do the job for one thing.  But it really exposes one's hand,
>>> so to
>>> speak, very early in the process.  Another employee who does not
>>> require any
>>> reasonable accommodations but who had a family situation that causes
>>> them to
>>> require time off, for example, won't reveal any of this until they
>>> have been
>>> hired.  We need to look for answers to some of this as blind people
>>> because
>>> we are the ones most effected.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G
>>> Heim via
>>> nfbcs
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:51 AM
>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: John G Heim <jheim at math.wisc.edu>; Tracy Carcione
>>> <carcione at access.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against
>>> Disabled
>>>
>>> It'd be funny if it wasn't about putting bread on the table.
>>> Another thing in the comments that I think is of interest is that some
>>> people blasted the research study saying it was stupid to disclose that
>>> you are disabled in the cover letter. But both of our examples show how
>>> futile it is to not disclose it.  You're going to end up at a lot of
>>> interviews where you have absolutely no chance at the job. There is
>>> always some chance you'll wow the interviewer into giving you a chance,
>>> I suppose. Is it worth it? Just my opinion but I don't think so. I think
>>> you are better off weeding those people out in the first place.
>>>
>>> The last time I was applying for jobs, I made myself out to be Super
>>> Blind Guy in my cover letter. Of course, I didn't actually use that term
>>> in my cover letter but I made a point of emphasizing the things I could
>>> do. I have competed in triathlonns, landscaped the front of my house,
>>> done a lot of woodworking. For what it's worth, it seemed to work.
>>>
>>> You know about Super Blind Guy, right? He and his faithful guide dog
>>> companion  go around righting wrongs with his razor sharp mind, super
>>> hearing, echo location, and super sensitive touch. "Ah ha!" says Super
>>> Blind Guy, "I knew the bill was counterfeit because it was dated 1936
>>> and Andrew Jackson didn't appear on the twenty until 1938."
>>> On 03/10/2016 10:10 AM, Tracy Carcione via nfbcs wrote:
>>>> I once interviewed for a job, taking a bus, a train, and walking
>>>> several
>>>> blocks in Manhattan, only to find the interviewer could not be
>>>> convinced I
>>>> wouldn't need someone to lead me to the bathroom.  Grrrr.
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G
>>>> Heim via
>>>> nfbcs
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 11:03 AM
>>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>>> Cc: John G Heim
>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against
>>>> Disabled
>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/02/upshot/fake-cover-letters-expose-discri
>>>
>>>> mination-against-disabled.html
>>>>
>>>> I think I have talked on this list about wanting to commission a study
>>>> similar to the one mentioned in this article except with a blind
>>>> applicant
>>>> applying for IT jobs. The study has people with spinal injuries and
>>>> Asperger's Syndrome applying for accounting jobs. They found disabled
>>>> applicants were 26% less likely to get a call back. Of particular
>>>> interest
>>>> are some of the comments.
>>>>
>>>> "Given two candidates of roughly equal qualifications the rational
>>> decision
>>>> would be to hire the one without disabilities. It's going to be less
>>>> expensive, on average . [...] So statistically, a disabled job
>>>> applicant
>>>> would need to be sufficiently better qualified for the job to
>>>> overcome the
>>>> disability to be the 'correct' choice."
>>>>
>>>> Long time readers of this list will know I've speculated about this
>>>> effect
>>>> for years. My guess is that this factor is much greater for blind
>>> applicants
>>>> than it is for the types of disabilities in the study. A blind person
>>> does,
>>>> in fact, have greater challenges to over come. But I suspect that even
>>> worse
>>>> is the lack of understanding about just how much a blind
>>>> technologist can
>>>> do. A perspective employer once flatly refused to interview me when she
>>> saw
>>>> that I was blind. She essentially accused me of faking my resume and
>>> simply
>>>> would not believe a blind person could use a computer.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
>

-- 
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail

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