[nfbcs] Communication with people who don't use screen readers

Sat Oct 8 18:52:06 UTC 2016

I have done that and got some hard commands that way, but that has been really difficult. Microsoft has a list of commands, but it is really complicated and doesn't have anything on it that I want to do.

Sabra Ewing

> On Oct 7, 2016, at 10:47 PM, Larry Wayland via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Do you know the hotkey commands for visual Studio?
> If you don't you can look them up on google by searching for "key board
> commands for visual studio."  Once you have them set down with a class mate,
> do the command and see what happens.  The class mate might learn something
> that would help them as well.
> Larry
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sabra Ewing via
> nfbcs
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2016 4:40 PM
> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Sabra Ewing
> Subject: [nfbcs] Communication with people who don't use screen readers
> 
> I am in a visual basic class that uses visual studio. Before we start, note
> that I have been blind since birth. I know nothing about how sighted people
> use the computer apart from the fact that their icons look like pictures and
> they click on them with a mouse. My problem is that even though Visual
> studio is completely accessible, I don't have any resources to know how to
> work it and it is not very intuitive. I have been working with my professor
> and several other people to try to work something out, but they don't know a
> lot about screen readers. I explained that optimally, I should be able to
> work Visual Studio myself if I could just know how, but they seem to think
> that I can't do it because it is too complicated, not because I lack the
> appropriate resources. It was suggested that I would have an assistant click
> on things for me and I will tell them what to click on. I explained it that
> that wasn't going to work, and they thought that it is because I am too
> independent and don't want to do it, but that isn't it. At this point, I am
> willing to do anything to get through the class, but I really don't think it
> would work. I could not tell a sighted person to do something that I know
> how to do like edit a worksheet and XL or put a header in a word document.
> So if I can't tell you how to do basic things on the computer using a mouse,
> how can I tell you how to use a barely familiar piece of software? They say
> it would be easy though and I would just tell them what to click on, but I
> can't do that, but I can't explain why to somebody who does not know a lot
> about screen readers. My professor says that my assistant would not know
> anything about visual studio so I couldn't use them to cheat on a test, so
> that means I couldn't just say something like, go to data tools or rename
> the table. The only way I can think of it to make that work is have a list
> of things I want to do, followed by a description of how to do it with the
> mouse, and I would just have to memorize each description, but that would be
> very diffi!
> cult, and if the description did not work for my assistant, the only thing
> I would be able to do is just repeat it. My professor said that I could have
> the office for students with disabilities produce a tactile picture of the
> screen. If there is a way to make that work, I would try it, but I don't
> know how. I don't know how the picture would fit on one page, and even
> though pages could be stuck together, it would start to get too big for me
> to read. Plus the screen changes all the time. Even my cited classmates seem
> to think that if I know where something is on the screen, that will help,
> but these computers are not touchscreen. I don't know how I would remember
> that though. For example, if you put a dot on a page, take the page away,
> and give me a blank page and the dot, I will not be able to put my dot in
> the same place no matter how many times I look at it. On my phone, I know
> where things are on the corners of the screen after keeping everything in
> the same place for four years, but I was thinking about this, and I really
> have no idea about the location of most of the things on my screen. If I
> need to go to an app, I flick to the folder where it is, tap on that folder,
> and go to the page where it is located and then flick until I find it. If I
> can't do that because it is being really elusive, then I just asked Siri to
> open it. I can type on a touchscreen keyboard though, so that has to mean I
> know where the letters are on the screen somehow, but I don't know how that
> is. That aside, even if I could somehow figure out how to know where things
> are on the screen, I don't know how I would click on it. I can't use the
> mouse, but I can't explain to people why that is. They say if I know where
> it is, then I should be able to point at it with the mouse. Maybe a picture
> of the screen would be different, but I can't read a tactile nap, and I feel
> like that ups the risk factor. They tried for years in school to teach me
> using a variety of methods, but it wouldn't work. The last thing I am trying
> to explain is that if !
> you tell me how to do something based on how an icon looks such as go to
> the green arrow or the red triangle, I will not be able to do it, even if
> you are asking me to perform a task I already know how to complete. I
> understand the concept of how an icon can be a picture, and how excited
> person clicks on that picture to do something, but I cannot match up the
> pictures they use with what I'm doing. This is not just becoming a problem
> working the software. It is becoming a problem with learning the material.
> For example, I was trying to learn to create an error provider control. I
> did, and there was supposedly an error message flashing when I typed in
> something in valid, but if someone had not told me, I would not have known
> that. If I had been using the program, all I would have known is that it
> wouldn't let me move onto the next text box for some reason. I was told to
> put something on there called a status bar strip as well, but it didn't do
> anything. They also say that jaws has a problem because they want to change
> the text of a button without changing the name. For example, they will place
> a button that is automatically named button one, then go to the text
> property and change that to insert or whatever it should be. But when I do
> that, it just says button one, button  two, and so forth. In order to be
> able to use the buttons, I have to change the name so it matches up with the
> text. I don't know exactly what this means, but I'm assuming there is
> probably a picture of a button like maybe an elevator button, and there is
> text next to it. Also, when I put a text box, I also have to put a label,
> but that doesn't make sense because the text box is already labeled. It is
> automatically labeled text box one when you place it. All I can figure is
> that sighted people can't see the label for some reason or maybe they need
> two of them. Well anyways, I need it to be able to communicate with the
> people I am working with for this class to work out. It has to work out
> because I somehow made it through visual basic one even t!
> hough I can only do limited things with visual studio, and my college is
> switching to C-sharp next semester. That means I will be a semester behind
> if I don't pass this class because I will have to start over again with
> C-sharp. What is going to happen as things get more complicated, and I have
> fewer and fewer tools to communicate because there is no terminology for
> anything I want to say? I have to say something because they think I'm just
> being stubborn and don't want to try a new way that could work. I also
> explained that I don't think using the flow panel to position controls will
> work, but was told that I have to try so I will know how to do things
> multiple ways. That sounds nice, but there is something in that exchange
> that I want to say, which I know what in my mind, but I don't know how to
> say it in words. For example, I will say I don't think it will work. You
> will say why not? I will say I don't know, and then you will assume that I
> have no reason and that I just don't want to try it. The only way I can
> think of to say it is to imagine that I am an iPhone, and you are asking me
> to run android. I can't do it because it just won't work. However, I have a
> feeling that would not make sense to the people I'm working with. If you
> would give me some suggestions on how I can communicate better, that would
> be great. Thank you.  
> 
> Sabra Ewing
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