[nfbcs] Research

Amanda Lacy lacy925 at gmail.com
Thu Feb 23 18:17:09 UTC 2017 

Seconded.

On 2/23/17, Martin, Vincent F via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I think tha tis a phenomenal idea.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Greg Kearney via
> nfbcs
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 12:25 PM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Greg Kearney <gkearney at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Research
>
> Perhaps the NFB could develop a college ratings system for accessibility at
> colleges and universities
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Greg Kearney
> Commonwealth Braille and Talking Book Cooperative
>
>> On Feb 23, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Martin, Vincent F via nfbcs
>> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> It is still such a crapshoot when choosing schools now.  As a blind
>> person, we really have to work our network really well before we consider
>> where we want to go for undergraduate and graduate school.  School
>> rankings, programs, and areas of research are still a major concern, but
>> having to fight the accessibility fight as well can be a daunting task.
>> Most people I know that had a bad experience with Computer Science or any
>> STEM based education mostly had an Accessibility problem and not a
>> curriculum problem.
>> I even recommended that a fellow blind PhD student choose another school
>> to attend for his PhD and he had a NSF fellowship.  I advised him of this
>> as I found out that I was the first and only totally blind student in
>> Georgia Tech's 131 year history.  I have had nothing but accessibility
>> problems since I arrived for graduate school, but felt that I was
>> qualified to work toward my degree and fight the fight at the same time.
>> I have earned my Master's degree and am in the last year to year and a
>> half of my PhD work, and I have done everything to make it better for
>> others behind me.
>> Unfortunately, I have had to file three different Office of Civil Rights
>> complaints against the school and they will soon be signing the agreement
>> on the third one.  The law is quite clear, but the school has been playing
>> a Risk management numbers game in this situation.  We now have two ADA
>> coordinators on campus (full-time) have done a two-year assessment of the
>> built environment and made a ten year strategic plan for addressing them,
>> but still are baulking at true accessibility in the electronic realm.  The
>> new Disability services Coordinator has a great new staff and is making
>> strides toward fixing years of neglect and I am gladly assisting her.  It
>> is rare when you find a person that understands that this is a social
>> problem and not a technological problem.  It truly is an attitude that
>> needs to be changed.
>> Now, I would recommend that a totally blind person attend the school, as I
>> think a newly matriculating student would be accommodated.  I was even
>> able to clear the path for a mentee of mine to come here.  He is not
>> totally blind, but does utilize assistive technology to help with the
>> reading of the vast numbers of academic journals.  He was just recently
>> married, and His wife is totally blind and he had to assist her over the
>> phone when she was in graduate school at another university with her
>> Statistics.  He attended an Ivy league school and she was at NyU.  If you
>> head to NC State or to Berkley, you have a much better chance of being
>> properly accommodated, but I know UT Austin was a nightmare for a recent
>> Computer Science graduate.  I know how bad it was for her as I was in
>> contact with some sighted students and graduate students when she was
>> there.  .  Colorado is much better now, but they had to be hit over the
>> head by the Department of Justice to make them clean up their act.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Heim
>> via nfbcs
>> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:06 AM
>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: John Heim <john at johnheim.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Research
>>
>> I don't think you can make generalizations based on the size of the
>> school. You can run into an uncooperative instructor anywhere. It can even
>> depend on who happens to be chair of the department at the time.
>> If you run into an uncooperative instructor, is the department chair or
>> dean of students going to care? Some do and some don't. I have heard
>> stories from students at other institutions that would shock any
>> instructor here at the University of Wisconsin.
>>
>> I can agree with your point about the competition though. I used to give a
>> mini-course on latex at the beginning of each school year. But fewer and
>> fewer people came to it and we finally stopped doing it. Kids come in
>> already knowing latex or they have to pick it up on their own. I'm glad
>> I'm not a student any more. The amount of partying I did would never cut
>> it these days.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 02/23/2017 12:28 AM, David Tseng via nfbcs wrote:
>>> When it comes down to it, the experience imo, depends on the university.
>>>
>>> In a big research university, say top 50 in the country, the emphasis
>>> is on a fairly challenging course load. The profile of the typical
>>> freshman undergrad is someone who has been coding for quite some
>>> time, has familiarity with a *nix environment, and is capable of
>>> picking up major topics at each lecture (two or three times a week).
>>> Classes are typically large; say ~100-200. Professors are extremely
>>> brilliant, which also means they go fast. Peers are at the top of
>>> their game. CS tends to attract students who exceled in high school.
>>> These are kids who took multi variable calculus, discrete math, and
>>> linear algebra before even graduating high school.
>>>
>>> While in undergrad, I spoke with plenty of sighted kids who found the
>>> experience daunting :).
>>>
>>> If you want a taste, you can "preview" much of the lower division
>>> classes from Berkeley. CS61A, for example, is the first course and it
>>> is a weeder for just about all students.
>>> I don't think I know many people, including colleagues, who could
>>> stand against the rigorousness of the grading. But, that's why it's a
>>> top program. However, in that environment, even little bit counts and
>>> blindness is a major disadvantage because you are judged against your
>>> peers without having access to 100% of what they've got.
>>>
>>> If I had one piece of advice to give, skip the CS undergrad unless
>>> you're in a lower teir school or a university you know well to be
>>> student centric and not heavily weighted towards performance metrics.
>>> Get your fancy CS graduate degree :) at a top teir school. That is a
>>> totally different animal and quite a bit easier imo. I know of many
>>> blind professionals who went to great uni's for their masters/Ph.D's
>>> for CS and due to a variety of factors, they all seem to find the
>>> experience better than those who took the undergrad route.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Joseph C. Lininger via nfbcs <
>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Amanda,
>>>> I have to disagree. I currently have an under grad degree in CS, and
>>>> I am working on a Ph.D. I am also employed full time as a computer
>>>> scientist.
>>>> There are some issues the blind will experience with technical
>>>> degrees that are unique to those degrees, but it's definitely doable.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/22/2017 12:13, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a CS degree. I cannot in good conscience recommend it to
>>>>> other blind students unless they accept that they will experience a
>>>>> lot of hurt. I don't have satisfying answers to most of your
>>>>> questions.
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/21/17, Michael via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Andy,
>>>>>> Thank you for your response. Before answering your questions, I
>>>>>> will preface my response that this project is entirely predicated
>>>>>> on ensuring other blind students, who may be considering computer
>>>>>> science, do not do what I did; namely, believing that blind people
>>>>>> cannot do computer science. Now, your
>>>>>> questions:
>>>>>> (1) No University, community college, or vocational school is
>>>>>> funding this; this is an assignment that I have received on behalf
>>>>>> of the Louisiana Center for the Blind (LCB) for my technology
>>>>>> class.
>>>>>> (2) I graduated from the University of Nevada, Reno, this past
>>>>>> December with an Honors B.A. in Philosophy with an emphasis in
>>>>>> logic, metaphysics, and epistemology.
>>>>>> (3) This guide will serve to educate prospective computer science
>>>>>> students who are blind. When I was in high school, I was extremely
>>>>>> interested in doing computer science. I was told that blind people
>>>>>> could not do computer science; mistakenly, I believed this to be
>>>>>> true and thus proceeded into the liberal arts. If I can provide
>>>>>> clarity to other students thinking about computer science, or
>>>>>> elucidate blind students when it comes to the copasity of blind
>>>>>> people, I would be very happy. As it stands, the only place I know
>>>>>> for sure this research will end up is the national Association of
>>>>>> Blind Students website, as I sit on the board and can make that
>>>>>> happen.
>>>>>> Otherwise,
>>>>>> I have no idea.
>>>>>> (4) This is true. I did not make this anonimis. If people are
>>>>>> willing to answer, I would be very happy, and will of course cite
>>>>>> you, or not cite you, depending on your permission. If people are
>>>>>> not willing to, I totally understand that as well.
>>>>>> I hope I was able to address your concerns.
>>>>>> For anyone else who wishes to help me out, you can email your
>>>>>> responses to my email (mausbun at nevada.unr.edu) or, if you feel
>>>>>> confortible, just responding to this thread.
>>>>>> Thank you again for all your attention and time!
>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>> Michael Ausbun
>>>>>> Vice President, National Federation of the Blind of Nevada.
>>>>>> Secretary, National Association of blind Students Student, The
>>>>>> Louisiana Center for the Blind
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andy B.
>>>>>> via nfbcs
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:24 PM
>>>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: Andy B. <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Research
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am interested in answering these questions. However, you never
>>>>>> displayed your credentials or qualifications in the subject. What
>>>>>> school is funding this study? Where did you graduate and with what
>>>>>> degree? What do you intend on doing with the guide when it is
>>>>>> finished? The results of this survey are not anonymous. Therefore,
>>>>>> people might be hesitant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael
>>>>>> via nfbcs
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:45 PM
>>>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: Michael <mausbun at nevada.unr.edu>
>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Research
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello All:
>>>>>>        My name is Michael Ausbun, and I am currently a student at
>>>>>> the Louisiana Center for the Blind. I am conducting research, to
>>>>>> develop a comprehensive guide for prospective computer science
>>>>>> students. I would much appreciate it if you would take some time
>>>>>> and answer the following questions.
>>>>>>        Thank you for your attention in this matter.
>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>> Michael Ausbun
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Research questions:
>>>>>> Advocacy:
>>>>>> (1)     What accommodations do you believe were most beneficial to you
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> completing your degree?
>>>>>> (2)     What accommodation(s) were necessary when completing visual
>>>>>> components
>>>>>> of one’s degree requirements?
>>>>>> (3)     In what ways have you advocated for the modification of
>>>>>> materials to
>>>>>> ensure equal access for yourself or future computer science students?
>>>>>> (4)     What is the most important question(s) a computer science
>>>>>> student should
>>>>>> ask their instructors before and during a selected course of study?
>>>>>> (5)     Are there any Universities, companies, or organizations who
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> been
>>>>>> greater benefactors?
>>>>>> Academics:
>>>>>> (1)     How much math and science is necessary for a person to be
>>>>>> successful
>>>>>> within the computer science field.
>>>>>> (2)     In general, are materials accessible with access technology?
>>>>>> (3)     What are some effective, and somewhat universal, techniques
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> manipulating and writing computer languages?
>>>>>> (4)     In what ways did your assignments get modified, to establish
>>>>>> equal
>>>>>> access to all requirements?
>>>>>> (5)     What are some effective ways for designing accessible
>>>>>> algorithms
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> data structures?
>>>>>> (6)     When developing a portfolio, did you find an accessible way
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> publicly
>>>>>> displaying your code, or for hosting your portfolio?
>>>>>> (7)     After publishing your code, what methods do you use to ensure
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> visible code is visually appealing or readable?
>>>>>> (8)     Are there any courses you might recommend to take in high
>>>>>> school
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> prepare someone going into the computer science field?
>>>>>> (9)     Besides the source work required to obtain your degree, what
>>>>>> additional
>>>>>> course work might you recommend to enhance one’s employment
>>>>>> effectiveness?
>>>>>> Access technology:
>>>>>> (1)     What access technology gave you the greatest degree of
>>>>>> opportunity to
>>>>>> compete on an equal playing field with your peers?
>>>>>> (2)     What challenges did access technology present when
>>>>>> interacting
>>>>>> with the
>>>>>> technology required to complete tasks and assignments for your
>>>>>> computer science degree or profession?
>>>>>> (3)     What role does access technology play in the completion of
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> daily
>>>>>> assignments or tasks?
>>>>>> (4)     How might modifications to standard technology create more
>>>>>> opportunity
>>>>>> for usability with access technology?
>>>>>> General technology:
>>>>>> (1)     In what ways is the general technology inaccessible when
>>>>>> paired
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> access technology? Are there any work arounds for these issues?
>>>>>> (2)     What sort of accommodations are necessary for the use of most
>>>>>> general
>>>>>> technology used in this field of study or profession?
>>>>>> (3)     Can standard tasks be completed on a unit without extensive
>>>>>> modification
>>>>>> or accommodations?
>>>>>> Does most technology come ready to use? Are there ways to increase
>>>>>> one’s productivity when using Python JavaScript C++ swift and
>>>>>> racket, and integrated development environments (IDEs)—such as
>>>>>> CodeLite, Eclipse, NetBeans, VisualWX, Xcode, and KDevelop?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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