[nfbcs] Research

[David Andrews]

Actually, the NFB is already going about this in 
the opposite way. We are promoting legislation 
that establishes accessibility standards for 
colleges and universities. Meeting them would be 
voluntary, but the one who did would be promoted.

Dave

At 12:51 PM 2/23/2017, you wrote:
>I'm not thinking of anything legally binding on 
>the schools I'm thinking something along the 
>lines of the U.S. News and World Report ratings 
>of colleges. U.S. News and World Report isn't 
>regulating colleges and they are not seeking the 
>permission of colleges to rate them in their 
>survey. Greg > On Feb 23, 2017, at 12:24 PM, 
>Andy B. via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote: > > 
>Not a wise idea since it would take more 
>resources than available, and schools can change 
>policy at a moments notice. Of course, schools 
>aren't regulated by the NFB, so why would they 
>seek approval or want to have the NFB as a 
>regulating body? Most of the ratings are based 
>on opinion much like other rating systems. Thus, 
>buyer beware, which is a present fact. The only 
>difference is no one is telling us to 
>beware. > > > > -----Original Message----- > 
>From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>Behalf Of Amanda Lacy via nfbcs > Sent: 
>Thursday, February 23, 2017 1:17 PM > To: NFB in 
>Computer Science Mailing List 
><nfbcs at nfbnet.org> > Cc: Amanda Lacy 
><lacy925 at gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [nfbcs] 
>Research > > Seconded. > > On 2/23/17, Martin, 
>Vincent F via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote: >> 
>I think tha tis a phenomenal idea. >> >> 
>-----Original Message----- >> From: nfbcs 
>[mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>Greg >> Kearney via nfbcs >> Sent: Thursday, 
>February 23, 2017 12:25 PM >> To: NFB in 
>Computer Science Mailing List 
><nfbcs at nfbnet.org> >> Cc: Greg Kearney 
><gkearney at gmail.com> >> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] 
>Research >> >> Perhaps the NFB could develop a 
>college ratings system for >> accessibility at 
>colleges and universities >> >> Sent from my 
>iPhone >> >> Greg Kearney >> Commonwealth 
>Braille and Talking Book Cooperative >> >>> On 
>Feb 23, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Martin, Vincent F via 
>nfbcs >>> <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote: >>> >>> It 
>is still such a crapshoot when choosing schools 
>now.  As a blind >>> person, we really have to 
>work our network really well before we >>> 
>consider where we want to go for undergraduate 
>and graduate school.  >>> School rankings, 
>programs, and areas of research are still a 
>major >>> concern, but having to fight the 
>accessibility fight as well can be a daunting 
>task. >>> Most people I know that had a bad 
>experience with Computer Science or >>> any STEM 
>based education mostly had an Accessibility 
>problem and not >>> a curriculum problem. >>> I 
>even recommended that a fellow blind PhD student 
>choose another >>> school to attend for his PhD 
>and he had a NSF fellowship.  I advised >>> him 
>of this as I found out that I was the first and 
>only totally >>> blind student in Georgia Tech's 
>131 year history.  I have had nothing >>> but 
>accessibility problems since I arrived for 
>graduate school, but >>> felt that I was 
>qualified to work toward my degree and fight the 
>fight at the same time. >>> I have earned my 
>Master's degree and am in the last year to year 
>and >>> a half of my PhD work, and I have done 
>everything to make it better >>> for others 
>behind me. >>> Unfortunately, I have had to file 
>three different Office of Civil >>> Rights 
>complaints against the school and they will soon 
>be signing >>> the agreement on the third 
>one.  The law is quite clear, but the >>> school 
>has been playing a Risk management numbers game 
>in this >>> situation.  We now have two ADA 
>coordinators on campus (full-time) >>> have done 
>a two-year assessment of the built environment 
>and made a >>> ten year strategic plan for 
>addressing them, but still are baulking >>> at 
>true accessibility in the electronic realm.  The 
>new Disability >>> services Coordinator has a 
>great new staff and is making strides >>> toward 
>fixing years of neglect and I am gladly 
>assisting her.  It is >>> rare when you find a 
>person that understands that this is a 
>social >>> problem and not a technological 
>problem.  It truly is an attitude that needs to 
>be changed. >>> Now, I would recommend that a 
>totally blind person attend the school, >>> as I 
>think a newly matriculating student would be 
>accommodated.  I >>> was even able to clear the 
>path for a mentee of mine to come here.  >>> He 
>is not totally blind, but does utilize assistive 
>technology to >>> help with the reading of the 
>vast numbers of academic journals.  He >>> was 
>just recently married, and His wife is totally 
>blind and he had >>> to assist her over the 
>phone when she was in graduate school at >>> 
>another university with her Statistics.  He 
>attended an Ivy league >>> school and she was at 
>NyU.  If you head to NC State or to Berkley, >>> 
>you have a much better chance of being properly 
>accommodated, but I >>> know UT Austin was a 
>nightmare for a recent Computer Science >>> 
>graduate.  I know how bad it was for her as I 
>was in contact with >>> some sighted students 
>and graduate students when she was 
>there.  .  >>> Colorado is much better now, but 
>they had to be hit over the head by the 
>Department of Justice to make them clean up 
>their act. >>> >>> >>> -----Original 
>Message----- >>> From: nfbcs 
>[mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>John Heim >>> via nfbcs >>> Sent: Thursday, 
>February 23, 2017 10:06 AM >>> To: NFB in 
>Computer Science Mailing List 
><nfbcs at nfbnet.org> >>> Cc: John Heim 
><john at johnheim.com> >>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] 
>Research >>> >>> I don't think you can make 
>generalizations based on the size of the >>> 
>school. You can run into an uncooperative 
>instructor anywhere. It can >>> even depend on 
>who happens to be chair of the department at the 
>time. >>> If you run into an uncooperative 
>instructor, is the department chair >>> or dean 
>of students going to care? Some do and some 
>don't. I have >>> heard stories from students at 
>other institutions that would shock >>> any 
>instructor here at the University of 
>Wisconsin. >>> >>> I can agree with your point 
>about the competition though. I used to >>> give 
>a mini-course on latex at the beginning of each 
>school year. But >>> fewer and fewer people came 
>to it and we finally stopped doing it. >>> Kids 
>come in already knowing latex or they have to 
>pick it up on >>> their own. I'm glad I'm not a 
>student any more. The amount of >>> partying I 
>did would never cut it these 
>days. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 02/23/2017 
>12:28 AM, David Tseng via nfbcs wrote: >>>> When 
>it comes down to it, the experience imo, depends 
>on the university. >>>> >>>> In a big research 
>university, say top 50 in the country, the >>>> 
>emphasis is on a fairly challenging course load. 
>The profile of the >>>> typical freshman 
>undergrad is someone who has been coding for 
>quite >>>> some time, has familiarity with a 
>*nix environment, and is capable >>>> of picking 
>up major topics at each lecture (two or three 
>times a week). >>>> Classes are typically large; 
>say ~100-200. Professors are extremely >>>> 
>brilliant, which also means they go fast. Peers 
>are at the top of >>>> their game. CS tends to 
>attract students who exceled in high 
>school. >>>> These are kids who took multi 
>variable calculus, discrete math, and >>>> 
>linear algebra before even graduating high 
>school. >>>> >>>> While in undergrad, I spoke 
>with plenty of sighted kids who found >>>> the 
>experience daunting :). >>>> >>>> If you want a 
>taste, you can "preview" much of the lower 
>division >>>> classes from Berkeley. CS61A, for 
>example, is the first course and >>>> it is a 
>weeder for just about all students. >>>> I don't 
>think I know many people, including colleagues, 
>who could >>>> stand against the rigorousness of 
>the grading. But, that's why it's >>>> a top 
>program. However, in that environment, even 
>little bit counts >>>> and blindness is a major 
>disadvantage because you are judged against >>>> 
>your peers without having access to 100% of what 
>they've got. >>>> >>>> If I had one piece of 
>advice to give, skip the CS undergrad 
>unless >>>> you're in a lower teir school or a 
>university you know well to be >>>> student 
>centric and not heavily weighted towards 
>performance metrics. >>>> Get your fancy CS 
>graduate degree :) at a top teir school. That is 
>a >>>> totally different animal and quite a bit 
>easier imo. I know of many >>>> blind 
>professionals who went to great uni's for their 
>masters/Ph.D's >>>> for CS and due to a variety 
>of factors, they all seem to find the >>>> 
>experience better than those who took the 
>undergrad route. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 
>22, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Joseph C. Lininger via 
>nfbcs < >>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> 
>Amanda, >>>>> I have to disagree. I currently 
>have an under grad degree in CS, >>>>> and I am 
>working on a Ph.D. I am also employed full time 
>as a >>>>> computer scientist. >>>>> There are 
>some issues the blind will experience with 
>technical >>>>> degrees that are unique to those 
>degrees, but it's definitely doable. >>>>> >>>>> 
>-- >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 2/22/2017 
>12:13, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs 
>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I have a CS degree. I 
>cannot in good conscience recommend it to >>>>>> 
>other blind students unless they accept that 
>they will experience >>>>>> a lot of hurt. I 
>don't have satisfying answers to most of 
>your >>>>>> questions. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 
>2/21/17, Michael via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> 
>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Andy, >>>>>>> Thank 
>you for your response. Before answering your 
>questions, I >>>>>>> will preface my response 
>that this project is entirely predicated >>>>>>> 
>on ensuring other blind students, who may be 
>considering computer >>>>>>> science, do not do 
>what I did; namely, believing that blind >>>>>>> 
>people cannot do computer science. Now, 
>your >>>>>>> questions: >>>>>>> (1) No 
>University, community college, or vocational 
>school is >>>>>>> funding this; this is an 
>assignment that I have received on >>>>>>> 
>behalf of the Louisiana Center for the Blind 
>(LCB) for my >>>>>>> technology class. >>>>>>> 
>(2) I graduated from the University of Nevada, 
>Reno, this past >>>>>>> December with an Honors 
>B.A. in Philosophy with an emphasis in >>>>>>> 
>logic, metaphysics, and epistemology. >>>>>>> 
>(3) This guide will serve to educate prospective 
>computer science >>>>>>> students who are blind. 
>When I was in high school, I was >>>>>>> 
>extremely interested in doing computer science. 
>I was told that >>>>>>> blind people could not 
>do computer science; mistakenly, I >>>>>>> 
>believed this to be true and thus proceeded into 
>the liberal >>>>>>> arts. If I can provide 
>clarity to other students thinking about >>>>>>> 
>computer science, or elucidate blind students 
>when it comes to >>>>>>> the copasity of blind 
>people, I would be very happy. As it >>>>>>> 
>stands, the only place I know for sure this 
>research will end up >>>>>>> is the national 
>Association of Blind Students website, as I 
>sit >>>>>>> on the board and can make that 
>happen. >>>>>>> Otherwise, >>>>>>> I have no 
>idea. >>>>>>> (4) This is true. I did not make 
>this anonimis. If people are >>>>>>> willing to 
>answer, I would be very happy, and will of 
>course cite >>>>>>> you, or not cite you, 
>depending on your permission. If people 
>are >>>>>>> not willing to, I totally understand 
>that as well. >>>>>>> I hope I was able to 
>address your concerns. >>>>>>> For anyone else 
>who wishes to help me out, you can email 
>your >>>>>>> responses to my email 
>(mausbun at nevada.unr.edu) or, if you feel >>>>>>> 
>confortible, just responding to this 
>thread. >>>>>>> Thank you again for all your 
>attention and time! >>>>>>> 
>Respectfully, >>>>>>> Michael Ausbun >>>>>>> 
>Vice President, National Federation of the Blind 
>of Nevada. >>>>>>> Secretary, National 
>Association of blind Students Student, 
>The >>>>>>> Louisiana Center for the 
>Blind >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original 
>Message----- >>>>>>> From: nfbcs 
>[mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
>Andy B. >>>>>>> via nfbcs >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 
>February 21, 2017 2:24 PM >>>>>>> To: 'NFB in 
>Computer Science Mailing List' 
><nfbcs at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>> Cc: Andy B. 
><sonfire11 at gmail.com> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: 
>[nfbcs] Research >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am interested 
>in answering these questions. However, you 
>never >>>>>>> displayed your credentials or 
>qualifications in the subject. What >>>>>>> 
>school is funding this study? Where did you 
>graduate and with >>>>>>> what degree? What do 
>you intend on doing with the guide when 
>it >>>>>>> is finished? The results of this 
>survey are not anonymous. >>>>>>> Therefore, 
>people might be 
>hesitant. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original 
>Message----- >>>>>>> From: nfbcs 
>[mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf 
>Of >>>>>>> Michael via nfbcs >>>>>>> Sent: 
>Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:45 PM >>>>>>> To: 
>'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' 
><nfbcs at nfbnet.org> >>>>>>> Cc: Michael 
><mausbun at nevada.unr.edu> >>>>>>> Subject: 
>[nfbcs] Research >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello 
>All: >>>>>>>       My name is Michael Ausbun, 
>and I am currently a student at >>>>>>> the 
>Louisiana Center for the Blind. I am conducting 
>research, to >>>>>>> develop a comprehensive 
>guide for prospective computer science >>>>>>> 
>students. I would much appreciate it if you 
>would take some time >>>>>>> and answer the 
>following questions. >>>>>>>       Thank you for 
>your attention in this matter. >>>>>>> 
>Respectfully, >>>>>>> Michael 
>Ausbun >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Research 
>questions: >>>>>>> Advocacy: >>>>>>> 
>(1)     What accommodations do you believe were 
>most beneficial to you >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> 
>completing your degree? >>>>>>> (2)     What 
>accommodation(s) were necessary when completing 
>visual >>>>>>> components >>>>>>> of one’s 
>degree requirements? >>>>>>> (3)     In what 
>ways have you advocated for the modification 
>of >>>>>>> materials to >>>>>>> ensure equal 
>access for yourself or future computer science 
>students? >>>>>>> (4)     What is the most 
>important question(s) a computer science >>>>>>> 
>student should >>>>>>> ask their instructors 
>before and during a selected course of 
>study? >>>>>>> (5)     Are there any 
>Universities, companies, or organizations 
>who >>>>>>> have >>>>>>> been >>>>>>> greater 
>benefactors? >>>>>>> Academics: >>>>>>> 
>(1)     How much math and science is necessary 
>for a person to be >>>>>>> successful >>>>>>> 
>within the computer science field. >>>>>>> 
>(2)     In general, are materials accessible 
>with access technology? >>>>>>> (3)     What are 
>some effective, and somewhat universal, 
>techniques >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> manipulating and 
>writing computer languages? >>>>>>> (4)     In 
>what ways did your assignments get modified, to 
>establish >>>>>>> equal >>>>>>> access to all 
>requirements? >>>>>>> (5)     What are some 
>effective ways for designing accessible >>>>>>> 
>algorithms >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> data 
>structures? >>>>>>> (6)     When developing a 
>portfolio, did you find an accessible 
>way >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> publicly >>>>>>> 
>displaying your code, or for hosting your 
>portfolio? >>>>>>> (7)     After publishing your 
>code, what methods do you use to ensure >>>>>>> 
>the >>>>>>> visible code is visually appealing 
>or readable? >>>>>>> (8)     Are there any 
>courses you might recommend to take in 
>high >>>>>>> school >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> prepare 
>someone going into the computer science 
>field? >>>>>>> (9)     Besides the source work 
>required to obtain your degree, what >>>>>>> 
>additional >>>>>>> course work might you 
>recommend to enhance one’s employment >>>>>>> 
>effectiveness? >>>>>>> Access 
>technology: >>>>>>> (1)     What access 
>technology gave you the greatest degree 
>of >>>>>>> opportunity to >>>>>>> compete on an 
>equal playing field with your peers? >>>>>>> 
>(2)     What challenges did access technology 
>present when >>>>>>> interacting >>>>>>> with 
>the >>>>>>> technology required to complete 
>tasks and assignments for your >>>>>>> computer 
>science degree or profession? >>>>>>> 
>(3)     What role does access technology play in 
>the completion of >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> 
>daily >>>>>>> assignments or tasks? >>>>>>> 
>(4)     How might modifications to standard 
>technology create more >>>>>>> 
>opportunity >>>>>>> for usability with access 
>technology? >>>>>>> General technology: >>>>>>> 
>(1)     In what ways is the general technology 
>inaccessible when >>>>>>> paired >>>>>>> 
>with >>>>>>> access technology? Are there any 
>work arounds for these issues? >>>>>>> 
>(2)     What sort of accommodations are 
>necessary for the use of most >>>>>>> 
>general >>>>>>> technology used in this field of 
>study or profession? >>>>>>> (3)     Can 
>standard tasks be completed on a unit without 
>extensive >>>>>>> modification >>>>>>> or 
>accommodations? >>>>>>> Does most technology 
>come ready to use? Are there ways to >>>>>>> 
>increase one’s productivity when using Python 
>JavaScript C++ >>>>>>> swift and racket, and 
>integrated development environments >>>>>>> 
>(IDEs)—such as CodeLite, Eclipse, NetBeans, 
>VisualWXX, Xcode, and 
>KDevelop? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 
>  >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nfbcs mailing