[nfbcs] Research

David Tseng davidct1209 at gmail.com
Fri Feb 24 15:07:30 UTC 2017 

I don't think the issue is the value of a CS degree. I think we can all
agree, a CS degree is valuable and is judged by the rigor of the program
behind it.

What I believe varies is what each person gets out of it.

For blind students today, I think we're getting less in a typical CS
undergrad program than, say, an English undergrad when compared with our
peers.

Let's say you're in a course on computability and complexity. You go to
lecture and sit with your fellow CS undergrads. Lecture starts and the prof
is addressing ~100 students. He has 50 minutes. Your ability to engage in
this type of environment is largely compromised by the fact that most
lecturers use a myriad of visual aids including diagrams, equations,
graphs, etc. What ends up happening typically, is in order to grock the
same material, at the same level as your peers, you will need to do quite a
bit more legwork than your peers.

When courses like this demand ~20 hours from a sighted student per week,
you're looking at clocking in ~40 hours just on this course alone. This
number can go up or down depending on how many tools you've got at your
disposal (e.g. laTeX, *nix workflows, etc etc).

Can it be done. Yup. Will you be better served by being a little older than
~20 years of age (typical junior), definitely.


On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 4:31 AM, Joseph C. Lininger via nfbcs <
nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Amanda,
> Worth while is the point I'm disagreeing with you on. Pretty much any
> degree is "doable", but as you point out with some there's no point because
> you won't be able to learn or do anything with that degree once you finish.
> That doesn't just apply to blind people either; there are worthless degrees
> out there.
>
> What I am arguing is that it is in fact worth while. I studied computer
> science at a couple of schools. In both cases, I was able to learn the
> material and I was able to complete most of the course work. There were a
> couple of situations where I needed some extra help, and there were a
> couple of major assignments I can remember where the professor had me do an
> alternative assignment. In those cases, it wasn't because I couldn't do the
> work in question, it was because the visual aspects weren't the point of
> the assignment and I could get the same information by doing something else.
>
> As for whether the degree is worth while from a career perspective, well,
> you can have quite a lengthy discussion on that particular question. As
> someone who has worked in the field for years, both with and without a CS
> degree, what I will say about it is this. If you want to work in the
> computer science field, as in the deep technical aspects of it and not just
> as a network admin or help desk rep or something like that, you almost have
> to have a computer science degree these days. It is possible to get hired
> as a software developer or other highly technical job without the degree,
> but it is not easy and the best jobs go to those with the degree.
>
> --
> Joe
>
>
> On 2/23/2017 13:34, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>
>> Joe,
>>
>> I agree that it's doable. Whether it's worthwhile is another question.
>> I transferred to UT Austin because I loved programming and learning.
>> Once there, I spent much more time struggling with access than I spent
>> programming or learning.
>>
>> On 2/22/17, Joseph C. Lininger via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Amanda,
>>> I have to disagree. I currently have an under grad degree in CS, and I
>>> am working on a Ph.D. I am also employed full time as a computer
>>> scientist. There are some issues the blind will experience with
>>> technical degrees that are unique to those degrees, but it's definitely
>>> doable.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> On 2/22/2017 12:13, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a CS degree. I cannot in good conscience recommend it to other
>>>> blind students unless they accept that they will experience a lot of
>>>> hurt. I don't have satisfying answers to most of your questions.
>>>>
>>>> On 2/21/17, Michael via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Andy,
>>>>> Thank you for your response. Before answering your questions, I will
>>>>> preface
>>>>> my response that this project is entirely predicated on ensuring other
>>>>> blind
>>>>> students, who may be considering computer science, do not do what I
>>>>> did;
>>>>> namely, believing that blind people cannot do computer science. Now,
>>>>> your
>>>>> questions:
>>>>> (1) No University, community college, or vocational school is funding
>>>>> this;
>>>>> this is an assignment that I have received on behalf of the Louisiana
>>>>> Center
>>>>> for the Blind (LCB) for my technology class.
>>>>> (2) I graduated from the University of Nevada, Reno, this past December
>>>>> with
>>>>> an Honors B.A. in Philosophy with an emphasis in logic, metaphysics,
>>>>> and
>>>>> epistemology.
>>>>> (3) This guide will serve to educate prospective computer science
>>>>> students
>>>>> who are blind. When I was in high school, I was extremely interested in
>>>>> doing computer science. I was told that blind people could not do
>>>>> computer
>>>>> science; mistakenly, I believed this to be true and thus proceeded into
>>>>> the
>>>>> liberal arts. If I can provide clarity to other students thinking about
>>>>> computer science, or elucidate blind students when it comes to the
>>>>> copasity
>>>>> of blind people, I would be very happy. As it stands, the only place I
>>>>> know
>>>>> for sure this research will end up is the national Association of Blind
>>>>> Students website, as I sit on the board and can make that happen.
>>>>> Otherwise,
>>>>> I have no idea.
>>>>> (4) This is true. I did not make this anonimis. If people are willing
>>>>> to
>>>>> answer, I would be very happy, and will of course cite you, or not cite
>>>>> you,
>>>>> depending on your permission. If people are not willing to, I totally
>>>>> understand that as well.
>>>>> I hope I was able to address your concerns.
>>>>> For anyone else who wishes to help me out, you can email your responses
>>>>> to
>>>>> my email (mausbun at nevada.unr.edu) or, if you feel confortible, just
>>>>> responding to this thread.
>>>>> Thank you again for all your attention and time!
>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>> Michael Ausbun
>>>>> Vice President, National Federation of the Blind of Nevada.
>>>>> Secretary, National Association of blind Students
>>>>> Student, The Louisiana Center for the Blind
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andy B. via
>>>>> nfbcs
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:24 PM
>>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Andy B. <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Research
>>>>>
>>>>> I am interested in answering these questions. However, you never
>>>>> displayed
>>>>> your credentials or qualifications in the subject. What school is
>>>>> funding
>>>>> this study? Where did you graduate and with what degree? What do you
>>>>> intend
>>>>> on doing with the guide when it is finished? The results of this survey
>>>>> are
>>>>> not anonymous. Therefore, people might be hesitant.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael via
>>>>> nfbcs
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:45 PM
>>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Cc: Michael <mausbun at nevada.unr.edu>
>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Research
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello All:
>>>>>         My name is Michael Ausbun, and I am currently a student at the
>>>>> Louisiana
>>>>> Center for the Blind. I am conducting research, to develop a
>>>>> comprehensive
>>>>> guide for prospective computer science students. I would much
>>>>> appreciate
>>>>> it
>>>>> if you would take some time and answer the following questions.
>>>>>         Thank you for your attention in this matter.
>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>> Michael Ausbun
>>>>>
>>>>> Research questions:
>>>>> Advocacy:
>>>>> (1)     What accommodations do you believe were most beneficial to you
>>>>> in
>>>>> completing your degree?
>>>>> (2)     What accommodation(s) were necessary when completing visual
>>>>> components
>>>>> of one’s degree requirements?
>>>>> (3)     In what ways have you advocated for the modification of
>>>>> materials to
>>>>> ensure equal access for yourself or future computer science students?
>>>>> (4)     What is the most important question(s) a computer science
>>>>> student
>>>>> should
>>>>> ask their instructors before and during a selected course of study?
>>>>> (5)     Are there any Universities, companies, or organizations who
>>>>> have been
>>>>> greater benefactors?
>>>>> Academics:
>>>>> (1)     How much math and science is necessary for a person to be
>>>>> successful
>>>>> within the computer science field.
>>>>> (2)     In general, are materials accessible with access technology?
>>>>> (3)     What are some effective, and somewhat universal, techniques for
>>>>> manipulating and writing computer languages?
>>>>> (4)     In what ways did your assignments get modified, to establish
>>>>> equal
>>>>> access to all requirements?
>>>>> (5)     What are some effective ways for designing accessible
>>>>> algorithms and
>>>>> data structures?
>>>>> (6)     When developing a portfolio, did you find an accessible way of
>>>>> publicly
>>>>> displaying your code, or for hosting your portfolio?
>>>>> (7)     After publishing your code, what methods do you use to ensure
>>>>> the
>>>>> visible code is visually appealing or readable?
>>>>> (8)     Are there any courses you might recommend to take in high
>>>>> school to
>>>>> prepare someone going into the computer science field?
>>>>> (9)     Besides the source work required to obtain your degree, what
>>>>> additional
>>>>> course work might you recommend to enhance one’s employment
>>>>> effectiveness?
>>>>> Access technology:
>>>>> (1)     What access technology gave you the greatest degree of
>>>>> opportunity to
>>>>> compete on an equal playing field with your peers?
>>>>> (2)     What challenges did access technology present when interacting
>>>>> with
>>>>> the
>>>>> technology required to complete tasks and assignments for your computer
>>>>> science degree or profession?
>>>>> (3)     What role does access technology play in the completion of
>>>>> your daily
>>>>> assignments or tasks?
>>>>> (4)     How might modifications to standard technology create more
>>>>> opportunity
>>>>> for usability with access technology?
>>>>> General technology:
>>>>> (1)     In what ways is the general technology inaccessible when
>>>>> paired with
>>>>> access technology? Are there any work arounds for these issues?
>>>>> (2)     What sort of accommodations are necessary for the use of most
>>>>> general
>>>>> technology used in this field of study or profession?
>>>>> (3)     Can standard tasks be completed on a unit without extensive
>>>>> modification
>>>>> or accommodations?
>>>>> Does most technology come ready to use? Are there ways to increase
>>>>> one’s
>>>>> productivity when using Python JavaScript C++ swift and racket, and
>>>>> integrated development environments (IDEs)—such as CodeLite, Eclipse,
>>>>> NetBeans, VisualWX, Xcode, and KDevelop?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> 40nevada.unr.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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