[nfbcs] Research

Amanda Lacy lacy925 at gmail.com
Fri Feb 24 18:47:41 UTC 2017 

I wasn't arguing that a CS degree generally isn't worth it. But if I
technically have a CS degree but I missed out on most of the benefits
it was supposed to bring, am I truly prepared or qualified for these
jobs that require CS degrees?

On 2/24/17, John Heim via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> The issue of the value of a degree has come up before on this list. In
> my capacity as President of IAVIT, I've talked to IT managers about this
> before. I happened to be on a run with a group of guys a couple of weeks
> ago. One of them was the manager of an IT department for a company with
> maybe a hundred employees in a handful of states.
> I brought up this issue about some blind people thinking a degree isn't
> worth it. He was, in turn, shocked, amused, then horrified. First he
> expressed surprise, then he made a little joke. Then when I explained it
> really was controversial, he was horrified. He said essentially that a
> blind person already has such an uphill battle that you really don't
> need to add not having a degree on top of it.  He said they get so many
> applications for entry level positions that they don't need to bother
> with people who don't have a degree in CS or related field. They don't
> even bother with people who don't have degrees for a lot of mid-level
> positions.
>
> So I asked him, "Which would be worse, having a misspelling on your
> resume or not having a degree?" He said, "You know, quite honestly, the
> degree would be a bigger problem.
>
> Having a degree so greatly expands the number of positions you qualify
> for that is absolutely worth it especially for a blind person.
>
>
> On 02/24/2017 06:31 AM, Joseph C. Lininger via nfbcs wrote:
>> Amanda,
>> Worth while is the point I'm disagreeing with you on. Pretty much any
>> degree is "doable", but as you point out with some there's no point
>> because you won't be able to learn or do anything with that degree once
>> you finish. That doesn't just apply to blind people either; there are
>> worthless degrees out there.
>>
>> What I am arguing is that it is in fact worth while. I studied computer
>> science at a couple of schools. In both cases, I was able to learn the
>> material and I was able to complete most of the course work. There were
>> a couple of situations where I needed some extra help, and there were a
>> couple of major assignments I can remember where the professor had me do
>> an alternative assignment. In those cases, it wasn't because I couldn't
>> do the work in question, it was because the visual aspects weren't the
>> point of the assignment and I could get the same information by doing
>> something else.
>>
>> As for whether the degree is worth while from a career perspective,
>> well, you can have quite a lengthy discussion on that particular
>> question. As someone who has worked in the field for years, both with
>> and without a CS degree, what I will say about it is this. If you want
>> to work in the computer science field, as in the deep technical aspects
>> of it and not just as a network admin or help desk rep or something like
>> that, you almost have to have a computer science degree these days. It
>> is possible to get hired as a software developer or other highly
>> technical job without the degree, but it is not easy and the best jobs
>> go to those with the degree.
>>
>> --
>> Joe
>>
>> On 2/23/2017 13:34, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>>> Joe,
>>>
>>> I agree that it's doable. Whether it's worthwhile is another question.
>>> I transferred to UT Austin because I loved programming and learning.
>>> Once there, I spent much more time struggling with access than I spent
>>> programming or learning.
>>>
>>> On 2/22/17, Joseph C. Lininger via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Amanda,
>>>> I have to disagree. I currently have an under grad degree in CS, and I
>>>> am working on a Ph.D. I am also employed full time as a computer
>>>> scientist. There are some issues the blind will experience with
>>>> technical degrees that are unique to those degrees, but it's definitely
>>>> doable.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> On 2/22/2017 12:13, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>> I have a CS degree. I cannot in good conscience recommend it to other
>>>>> blind students unless they accept that they will experience a lot of
>>>>> hurt. I don't have satisfying answers to most of your questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/21/17, Michael via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Andy,
>>>>>> Thank you for your response. Before answering your questions, I will
>>>>>> preface
>>>>>> my response that this project is entirely predicated on ensuring other
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> students, who may be considering computer science, do not do what I
>>>>>> did;
>>>>>> namely, believing that blind people cannot do computer science.
>>>>>> Now, your
>>>>>> questions:
>>>>>> (1) No University, community college, or vocational school is funding
>>>>>> this;
>>>>>> this is an assignment that I have received on behalf of the Louisiana
>>>>>> Center
>>>>>> for the Blind (LCB) for my technology class.
>>>>>> (2) I graduated from the University of Nevada, Reno, this past
>>>>>> December
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> an Honors B.A. in Philosophy with an emphasis in logic,
>>>>>> metaphysics, and
>>>>>> epistemology.
>>>>>> (3) This guide will serve to educate prospective computer science
>>>>>> students
>>>>>> who are blind. When I was in high school, I was extremely
>>>>>> interested in
>>>>>> doing computer science. I was told that blind people could not do
>>>>>> computer
>>>>>> science; mistakenly, I believed this to be true and thus proceeded
>>>>>> into
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> liberal arts. If I can provide clarity to other students thinking
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> computer science, or elucidate blind students when it comes to the
>>>>>> copasity
>>>>>> of blind people, I would be very happy. As it stands, the only place I
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> for sure this research will end up is the national Association of
>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>> Students website, as I sit on the board and can make that happen.
>>>>>> Otherwise,
>>>>>> I have no idea.
>>>>>> (4) This is true. I did not make this anonimis. If people are
>>>>>> willing to
>>>>>> answer, I would be very happy, and will of course cite you, or not
>>>>>> cite
>>>>>> you,
>>>>>> depending on your permission. If people are not willing to, I totally
>>>>>> understand that as well.
>>>>>> I hope I was able to address your concerns.
>>>>>> For anyone else who wishes to help me out, you can email your
>>>>>> responses
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> my email (mausbun at nevada.unr.edu) or, if you feel confortible, just
>>>>>> responding to this thread.
>>>>>> Thank you again for all your attention and time!
>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>> Michael Ausbun
>>>>>> Vice President, National Federation of the Blind of Nevada.
>>>>>> Secretary, National Association of blind Students
>>>>>> Student, The Louisiana Center for the Blind
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andy B. via
>>>>>> nfbcs
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:24 PM
>>>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: Andy B. <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Research
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am interested in answering these questions. However, you never
>>>>>> displayed
>>>>>> your credentials or qualifications in the subject. What school is
>>>>>> funding
>>>>>> this study? Where did you graduate and with what degree? What do you
>>>>>> intend
>>>>>> on doing with the guide when it is finished? The results of this
>>>>>> survey
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> not anonymous. Therefore, people might be hesitant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael via
>>>>>> nfbcs
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:45 PM
>>>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Cc: Michael <mausbun at nevada.unr.edu>
>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Research
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello All:
>>>>>>     My name is Michael Ausbun, and I am currently a student at the
>>>>>> Louisiana
>>>>>> Center for the Blind. I am conducting research, to develop a
>>>>>> comprehensive
>>>>>> guide for prospective computer science students. I would much
>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> if you would take some time and answer the following questions.
>>>>>>     Thank you for your attention in this matter.
>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>> Michael Ausbun
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Research questions:
>>>>>> Advocacy:
>>>>>> (1)    What accommodations do you believe were most beneficial to
>>>>>> you in
>>>>>> completing your degree?
>>>>>> (2)    What accommodation(s) were necessary when completing visual
>>>>>> components
>>>>>> of one’s degree requirements?
>>>>>> (3)    In what ways have you advocated for the modification of
>>>>>> materials to
>>>>>> ensure equal access for yourself or future computer science students?
>>>>>> (4)    What is the most important question(s) a computer science
>>>>>> student
>>>>>> should
>>>>>> ask their instructors before and during a selected course of study?
>>>>>> (5)    Are there any Universities, companies, or organizations who
>>>>>> have been
>>>>>> greater benefactors?
>>>>>> Academics:
>>>>>> (1)    How much math and science is necessary for a person to be
>>>>>> successful
>>>>>> within the computer science field.
>>>>>> (2)    In general, are materials accessible with access technology?
>>>>>> (3)    What are some effective, and somewhat universal, techniques for
>>>>>> manipulating and writing computer languages?
>>>>>> (4)    In what ways did your assignments get modified, to establish
>>>>>> equal
>>>>>> access to all requirements?
>>>>>> (5)    What are some effective ways for designing accessible
>>>>>> algorithms and
>>>>>> data structures?
>>>>>> (6)    When developing a portfolio, did you find an accessible way of
>>>>>> publicly
>>>>>> displaying your code, or for hosting your portfolio?
>>>>>> (7)    After publishing your code, what methods do you use to
>>>>>> ensure the
>>>>>> visible code is visually appealing or readable?
>>>>>> (8)    Are there any courses you might recommend to take in high
>>>>>> school to
>>>>>> prepare someone going into the computer science field?
>>>>>> (9)    Besides the source work required to obtain your degree, what
>>>>>> additional
>>>>>> course work might you recommend to enhance one’s employment
>>>>>> effectiveness?
>>>>>> Access technology:
>>>>>> (1)    What access technology gave you the greatest degree of
>>>>>> opportunity to
>>>>>> compete on an equal playing field with your peers?
>>>>>> (2)    What challenges did access technology present when
>>>>>> interacting with
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> technology required to complete tasks and assignments for your
>>>>>> computer
>>>>>> science degree or profession?
>>>>>> (3)    What role does access technology play in the completion of
>>>>>> your daily
>>>>>> assignments or tasks?
>>>>>> (4)    How might modifications to standard technology create more
>>>>>> opportunity
>>>>>> for usability with access technology?
>>>>>> General technology:
>>>>>> (1)    In what ways is the general technology inaccessible when
>>>>>> paired with
>>>>>> access technology? Are there any work arounds for these issues?
>>>>>> (2)    What sort of accommodations are necessary for the use of
>>>>>> most general
>>>>>> technology used in this field of study or profession?
>>>>>> (3)    Can standard tasks be completed on a unit without extensive
>>>>>> modification
>>>>>> or accommodations?
>>>>>> Does most technology come ready to use? Are there ways to increase
>>>>>> one’s
>>>>>> productivity when using Python JavaScript C++ swift and racket, and
>>>>>> integrated development environments (IDEs)—such as CodeLite, Eclipse,
>>>>>> NetBeans, VisualWX, Xcode, and KDevelop?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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