[nfbcs] Research

John Heim john at johnheim.com
Fri Feb 24 19:25:44 UTC 2017 

I don't understand your question. Are you saying that you feel your 
education was inadequate or are you saying that being blind, you fell 
that you couldn't cash in on having a CS degree?

It may not be directly relevant to your point but I would add that there 
certainly are easier ways for a blind person to get by in life than 
getting a CS degree and fighting with computers every day. It isn't 
easy. But for some people, that's what they like about it. Being someone 
who thrives on challenges is a valuable trait for anyone who works with 
computers but especially for a blind person.



On 02/24/2017 12:47 PM, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
> I wasn't arguing that a CS degree generally isn't worth it. But if I
> technically have a CS degree but I missed out on most of the benefits
> it was supposed to bring, am I truly prepared or qualified for these
> jobs that require CS degrees?
>
> On 2/24/17, John Heim via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> The issue of the value of a degree has come up before on this list. In
>> my capacity as President of IAVIT, I've talked to IT managers about this
>> before. I happened to be on a run with a group of guys a couple of weeks
>> ago. One of them was the manager of an IT department for a company with
>> maybe a hundred employees in a handful of states.
>> I brought up this issue about some blind people thinking a degree isn't
>> worth it. He was, in turn, shocked, amused, then horrified. First he
>> expressed surprise, then he made a little joke. Then when I explained it
>> really was controversial, he was horrified. He said essentially that a
>> blind person already has such an uphill battle that you really don't
>> need to add not having a degree on top of it.  He said they get so many
>> applications for entry level positions that they don't need to bother
>> with people who don't have a degree in CS or related field. They don't
>> even bother with people who don't have degrees for a lot of mid-level
>> positions.
>>
>> So I asked him, "Which would be worse, having a misspelling on your
>> resume or not having a degree?" He said, "You know, quite honestly, the
>> degree would be a bigger problem.
>>
>> Having a degree so greatly expands the number of positions you qualify
>> for that is absolutely worth it especially for a blind person.
>>
>>
>> On 02/24/2017 06:31 AM, Joseph C. Lininger via nfbcs wrote:
>>> Amanda,
>>> Worth while is the point I'm disagreeing with you on. Pretty much any
>>> degree is "doable", but as you point out with some there's no point
>>> because you won't be able to learn or do anything with that degree once
>>> you finish. That doesn't just apply to blind people either; there are
>>> worthless degrees out there.
>>>
>>> What I am arguing is that it is in fact worth while. I studied computer
>>> science at a couple of schools. In both cases, I was able to learn the
>>> material and I was able to complete most of the course work. There were
>>> a couple of situations where I needed some extra help, and there were a
>>> couple of major assignments I can remember where the professor had me do
>>> an alternative assignment. In those cases, it wasn't because I couldn't
>>> do the work in question, it was because the visual aspects weren't the
>>> point of the assignment and I could get the same information by doing
>>> something else.
>>>
>>> As for whether the degree is worth while from a career perspective,
>>> well, you can have quite a lengthy discussion on that particular
>>> question. As someone who has worked in the field for years, both with
>>> and without a CS degree, what I will say about it is this. If you want
>>> to work in the computer science field, as in the deep technical aspects
>>> of it and not just as a network admin or help desk rep or something like
>>> that, you almost have to have a computer science degree these days. It
>>> is possible to get hired as a software developer or other highly
>>> technical job without the degree, but it is not easy and the best jobs
>>> go to those with the degree.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> On 2/23/2017 13:34, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>>>> Joe,
>>>>
>>>> I agree that it's doable. Whether it's worthwhile is another question.
>>>> I transferred to UT Austin because I loved programming and learning.
>>>> Once there, I spent much more time struggling with access than I spent
>>>> programming or learning.
>>>>
>>>> On 2/22/17, Joseph C. Lininger via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Amanda,
>>>>> I have to disagree. I currently have an under grad degree in CS, and I
>>>>> am working on a Ph.D. I am also employed full time as a computer
>>>>> scientist. There are some issues the blind will experience with
>>>>> technical degrees that are unique to those degrees, but it's definitely
>>>>> doable.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Joe
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2/22/2017 12:13, Amanda Lacy via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>>> I have a CS degree. I cannot in good conscience recommend it to other
>>>>>> blind students unless they accept that they will experience a lot of
>>>>>> hurt. I don't have satisfying answers to most of your questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/21/17, Michael via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello Andy,
>>>>>>> Thank you for your response. Before answering your questions, I will
>>>>>>> preface
>>>>>>> my response that this project is entirely predicated on ensuring other
>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>> students, who may be considering computer science, do not do what I
>>>>>>> did;
>>>>>>> namely, believing that blind people cannot do computer science.
>>>>>>> Now, your
>>>>>>> questions:
>>>>>>> (1) No University, community college, or vocational school is funding
>>>>>>> this;
>>>>>>> this is an assignment that I have received on behalf of the Louisiana
>>>>>>> Center
>>>>>>> for the Blind (LCB) for my technology class.
>>>>>>> (2) I graduated from the University of Nevada, Reno, this past
>>>>>>> December
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> an Honors B.A. in Philosophy with an emphasis in logic,
>>>>>>> metaphysics, and
>>>>>>> epistemology.
>>>>>>> (3) This guide will serve to educate prospective computer science
>>>>>>> students
>>>>>>> who are blind. When I was in high school, I was extremely
>>>>>>> interested in
>>>>>>> doing computer science. I was told that blind people could not do
>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>> science; mistakenly, I believed this to be true and thus proceeded
>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> liberal arts. If I can provide clarity to other students thinking
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> computer science, or elucidate blind students when it comes to the
>>>>>>> copasity
>>>>>>> of blind people, I would be very happy. As it stands, the only place I
>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>> for sure this research will end up is the national Association of
>>>>>>> Blind
>>>>>>> Students website, as I sit on the board and can make that happen.
>>>>>>> Otherwise,
>>>>>>> I have no idea.
>>>>>>> (4) This is true. I did not make this anonimis. If people are
>>>>>>> willing to
>>>>>>> answer, I would be very happy, and will of course cite you, or not
>>>>>>> cite
>>>>>>> you,
>>>>>>> depending on your permission. If people are not willing to, I totally
>>>>>>> understand that as well.
>>>>>>> I hope I was able to address your concerns.
>>>>>>> For anyone else who wishes to help me out, you can email your
>>>>>>> responses
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> my email (mausbun at nevada.unr.edu) or, if you feel confortible, just
>>>>>>> responding to this thread.
>>>>>>> Thank you again for all your attention and time!
>>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>>> Michael Ausbun
>>>>>>> Vice President, National Federation of the Blind of Nevada.
>>>>>>> Secretary, National Association of blind Students
>>>>>>> Student, The Louisiana Center for the Blind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Andy B. via
>>>>>>> nfbcs
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:24 PM
>>>>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: Andy B. <sonfire11 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Research
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am interested in answering these questions. However, you never
>>>>>>> displayed
>>>>>>> your credentials or qualifications in the subject. What school is
>>>>>>> funding
>>>>>>> this study? Where did you graduate and with what degree? What do you
>>>>>>> intend
>>>>>>> on doing with the guide when it is finished? The results of this
>>>>>>> survey
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> not anonymous. Therefore, people might be hesitant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael via
>>>>>>> nfbcs
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 2:45 PM
>>>>>>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: Michael <mausbun at nevada.unr.edu>
>>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Research
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello All:
>>>>>>>     My name is Michael Ausbun, and I am currently a student at the
>>>>>>> Louisiana
>>>>>>> Center for the Blind. I am conducting research, to develop a
>>>>>>> comprehensive
>>>>>>> guide for prospective computer science students. I would much
>>>>>>> appreciate
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> if you would take some time and answer the following questions.
>>>>>>>     Thank you for your attention in this matter.
>>>>>>> Respectfully,
>>>>>>> Michael Ausbun
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Research questions:
>>>>>>> Advocacy:
>>>>>>> (1)    What accommodations do you believe were most beneficial to
>>>>>>> you in
>>>>>>> completing your degree?
>>>>>>> (2)    What accommodation(s) were necessary when completing visual
>>>>>>> components
>>>>>>> of one’s degree requirements?
>>>>>>> (3)    In what ways have you advocated for the modification of
>>>>>>> materials to
>>>>>>> ensure equal access for yourself or future computer science students?
>>>>>>> (4)    What is the most important question(s) a computer science
>>>>>>> student
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> ask their instructors before and during a selected course of study?
>>>>>>> (5)    Are there any Universities, companies, or organizations who
>>>>>>> have been
>>>>>>> greater benefactors?
>>>>>>> Academics:
>>>>>>> (1)    How much math and science is necessary for a person to be
>>>>>>> successful
>>>>>>> within the computer science field.
>>>>>>> (2)    In general, are materials accessible with access technology?
>>>>>>> (3)    What are some effective, and somewhat universal, techniques for
>>>>>>> manipulating and writing computer languages?
>>>>>>> (4)    In what ways did your assignments get modified, to establish
>>>>>>> equal
>>>>>>> access to all requirements?
>>>>>>> (5)    What are some effective ways for designing accessible
>>>>>>> algorithms and
>>>>>>> data structures?
>>>>>>> (6)    When developing a portfolio, did you find an accessible way of
>>>>>>> publicly
>>>>>>> displaying your code, or for hosting your portfolio?
>>>>>>> (7)    After publishing your code, what methods do you use to
>>>>>>> ensure the
>>>>>>> visible code is visually appealing or readable?
>>>>>>> (8)    Are there any courses you might recommend to take in high
>>>>>>> school to
>>>>>>> prepare someone going into the computer science field?
>>>>>>> (9)    Besides the source work required to obtain your degree, what
>>>>>>> additional
>>>>>>> course work might you recommend to enhance one’s employment
>>>>>>> effectiveness?
>>>>>>> Access technology:
>>>>>>> (1)    What access technology gave you the greatest degree of
>>>>>>> opportunity to
>>>>>>> compete on an equal playing field with your peers?
>>>>>>> (2)    What challenges did access technology present when
>>>>>>> interacting with
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> technology required to complete tasks and assignments for your
>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>> science degree or profession?
>>>>>>> (3)    What role does access technology play in the completion of
>>>>>>> your daily
>>>>>>> assignments or tasks?
>>>>>>> (4)    How might modifications to standard technology create more
>>>>>>> opportunity
>>>>>>> for usability with access technology?
>>>>>>> General technology:
>>>>>>> (1)    In what ways is the general technology inaccessible when
>>>>>>> paired with
>>>>>>> access technology? Are there any work arounds for these issues?
>>>>>>> (2)    What sort of accommodations are necessary for the use of
>>>>>>> most general
>>>>>>> technology used in this field of study or profession?
>>>>>>> (3)    Can standard tasks be completed on a unit without extensive
>>>>>>> modification
>>>>>>> or accommodations?
>>>>>>> Does most technology come ready to use? Are there ways to increase
>>>>>>> one’s
>>>>>>> productivity when using Python JavaScript C++ swift and racket, and
>>>>>>> integrated development environments (IDEs)—such as CodeLite, Eclipse,
>>>>>>> NetBeans, VisualWX, Xcode, and KDevelop?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>
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