[nfbcs] Accessible PDF from LaTeX? (was Re: LaTeX)
Doug Lee
dgl at dlee.org
Fri Mar 30 01:28:25 UTC 2018
Morphing this thread for at least the second time...
There has been discussion here of using LaTeX to create PDF output. I'm wondering which if any tools for this generate PDF output that is properly accessible--i.e., well tagged and structured.
On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 08:21:52PM -0500, NFBCS mailing list wrote:
Well, again, I wasn't saying you have to know latex. I was saying that it's
typical for a school to expect you to pick it up on your own if you need to
know it.
But do you mean to say that you didn't need to know latex for a Comp Sci
degree? I will admit I am a little surprised by that but not shocked. I know
that kind of thing varies greatly from school to school. In fact, my
department once hired a guy who had gotten a Comp Sci degree withoutlearning a
programming language. He had never written a computer program the entire time
he was in college. I was on the team that interviewed him and, frankly, I
never even thought to ask that. Of course, latex is nothing like that. The
vast majority of jobs don't require you to know latex. It's in wide use in
academic circles though.
So I am guessing your school uses Microsoft products? You do your papers in
Word? I just met with some instructors of blind students at the high school
level and they said they have their kids do their papers in latex and convert
them to pdf when submitting them to the teacher. I personally do it that way
for the papers I write professionally. But most of the world uses Microsoft
Word.
On 03/29/2018 07:23 PM, Ryan Mann via nfbcs wrote:
> For me, latex was not required in any of my classes for my bachelors degree. I???m doing a masters degree now, it has not been required for that either.
> Sent from my toaster
>
> > On Mar 29, 2018, at 7:04 PM, Doug Lee via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > Ok, to try and carve a reasonable path between these last two... :)
> >
> > John's final point is valid: The skill of knowing how to learn on your own is indispensable in today's world.
> >
> > But that does not mean it is wrong to seek help. Collaboration skills, part of which is team skills, are also invaluable nowadays. One would hope that, where you ask for help in one area, you may find ways to give help in
> > another.
> >
> > As an aside, it is news to me that any school requires LaTeX for all students.
> >
> > Many years ago, I thought of crafting a presentation called "The Two Kinds of 'Fair'." I never got round to it, but here's the basic idea - and college and would-be college students, please read this:
> >
> > The following is my experience. Your mileage may vary of course.
> >
> > In high school, an assignment would be handed out to the class in print. Simultaneously, I would receive a Braille copy. The students would be required, during class or at home or whatever, to complete the assignment and turn
> > it in, again in print. I was required, within the same timeframe, to turn in a Braille copy of my work. This is, of course, fair. Specifically, it is fair to me.
> >
> > However...
> >
> > In college, an assignment was handed out in print. I received the same print copy. The assignment, again, was to be carried out and turned in, in print. I was to turn in a print copy at the same time everyone else did. This, of
> > course, is fair. Specifically, this is fair to the rest of the class.
> >
> > But also, of course, it is very different!
> >
> > So... John's point, put perhaps more delicately, is that the second kind of "fair" really does take over out there, in college often enough but absolutely in employment. Ongoing accessibility work is of course bridging the gap
> > between the two kinds of fair; but there will always be cases where the difference remains. The second kind of fair, I say, weighs more in the balance after high school because, strictly from a mathematical standpoint, it
> > is "fair" to more people. This is not a moral defense; it is just an observation. This is precisely the reason we work so hard to make things accessible, so that what is fair to them also becomes fair for us.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 05:41:08PM -0500, NFBCS mailing list wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I say you're FOS!
> > A person new to a class is supposed to know a program like cisco packet tracer the first time they sit down and figure it out yourself when it doesn't tell you squat with jaws?
> > FO mr. high & mighty!
> > Bryan
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nfbcs <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of John Heim via nfbcs
> > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 11:55 AM
> > To: sarah.jevnikar at gmail.com; 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: John Heim <john at johnheim.com>
> > Subject: Re: [nfbcs] LaTeX [was "Re: Computer science mentors?"]
> >
> > If you are a new college student, I can almost guarantee that one thing you will be shocked at is how much you are expected to do for yourself.
> > It's a shock for nearly every freshman student and sometimes more so for disabled students who often have overly protective parents. A good example of how much you're expected to pick up on your own is latex itself. I used to teach a mini-course on latex at the University Of Wisconsin. But I don't do that anymore because students are expected to know it by the time they get here. And if they don't, they are expected to google it and get themselves up to speed.
> >
> > By the way, the better the school, the more they are going to expect you to do on your own. Part of having high academic standards is demanding a lot from the students. A good school also has good safety nets but the school's reputation depends in part on putting out graduates who can make it in the real world. In the real world, you are going to have to take it a step further. You're going to be expected not only to pick things up on your ow, you are going to be expected to decide for yourself what you need to pick up. Maybe someday latex will be obsolete.
> > You are going to be expected to recognize that and to advise your employer to switch to something new. It's even more true in academia where researchers are expected to break new ground all the time.
> >
> > If you are interested in a career in technology, the best skills you can develop are those that allow you to learn things on your own. No question.
> >
> >
> > > On 03/29/2018 10:03 AM, Sarah Jevnikar wrote:
> > > Thanks everyone! Also thanks to whoever changed the subject line.
> > > I currently have MiKTeX, Winedt and Notepad++ installed and am making use of bookshare books and Google, but I've been spoiled with step-by-step courses in life so need to get used to a more self-directed way of learning. I also need to get over the intimidation factor. And learn how to use Winedt...
> > > Thanks again!
> > > Sarah
> > >
> > >
> > > Sarah Jevnikar
> > > http://www.twitter.com/sarahjevnikar/
> > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahjevnikar
> > > sarah.jevnikar at gmail.com
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John Heim via nfbcs
> > > Sent: March 29, 2018 10:12 AM
> > > To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
> > > Cc: John Heim
> > > Subject: Re: [nfbcs] LaTeX [was "Re: Computer science mentors?"]
> > >
> > > I do exactly the same things. I've been using latex since long before the world wide web existed but now a days, I google it. The wikibook on latex is an excellent place to start. After creating the doc in latex, I convert it to a pdf with pdflatex and that's the document I sent out.
> > > This is all linux, of course. That's another issue.
> > >
> > >
> > > > On 03/29/2018 06:33 AM, Christopher Chaltain via nfbcs wrote:
> > > > While you're waiting for Tyler, I'll just say that I used on line
> > > > tutorials and examples when learning LaTeX. For example, if I want to
> > > > use LaTeX to write a personal letter, I'll Google for LaTeX and
> > > > letters and find a ton of samples to choose from and use as a starting
> > > > point. I use pdflatex to turn my LaTeX markup into a PDF document.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > On 03/28/2018 08:37 PM, Sarah Jevnikar via nfbcs wrote:
> > > > > Tyler, I'm sure I've asked you this before (so apologies for any
> > > > > spam) but how did you learn LaTeX? What do you use to compile it?
> > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > Sarah
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> > > > > Littlefield, Tyler via nfbcs
> > > > > Sent: March 26, 2018 1:52 PM
> > > > > To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
> > > > > Cc: Littlefield, Tyler
> > > > > Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Computer science mentors?
> > > > >
> > > > > Kendra:
> > > > > I've never done anything with climatology, but I'm happy to help
> > > > > answer questions, give you pointers, whatever I can do. I used LaTex
> > > > > for all of my math courses. Please feel free to get in touch.
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 3/26/2018 1:25 PM, Kendra Schaber via nfbcs wrote:
> > > > > > Hi all!
> > > > > > I???m looking for a mentor in the computer science field. I need to
> > > > > > learn computer science and know very little of this field. I have to
> > > > > > learn Latex and take a few computer science courses as part of my
> > > > > > climatology degree. Does anyone know where to find the right mentor?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Blessed be!!!
> > > > > > Kendra Schaber,
> > > > > > Citizen Phenologist,
> > > > > > Aspiring climatology Student;
> > > > > > Preparing to attend Chemeketa Community College for a transfer
> > > > > > degree with a climatology degree at Oregon State University,
> > > > > > National Federation of the Blind, Capitol Chapter, Salem, Oregon.
> > > > > > "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear" Author Unknown.
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > .c
> > > > > > om
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > --
> > Doug Lee dgl at dlee.org http://www.dlee.org
> > Level Access doug.lee at LevelAccess.com http://www.LevelAccess.com
> > "It is not the mountain in the distance which makes you want to stop
> > walking; but the grain of sand in your shoe." --Anon
> >
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--
Jack Heim, john at johnheim.com
"You show me a man who belittles another and I will show you a man who is not
a leader." -- Vince Lombardi
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