[nfbcs] purpose of division

Sun Nov 25 02:11:23 UTC 2018

Hi,

It was noticed with explorer and firefox.
Bryan Schulz

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbcs <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Aaron Cannon via nfbcs
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2018 5:22 PM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Aaron Cannon <cannona at fireantproductions.com>
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] purpose of division

Which browser are you on?

This appears to be a ReCAPTCHA, which tend to work a lot better if you first
login to your google account in the same browser first.

Hope this helps.

Aaron

On 11/24/18, Bryan Schulz via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thank you for providing an overview.
> This was not the first time I have found this style of captia, it just 
> seems to be found more often and spurred irritation.
> The site was www.rc10.com and the captia is found after hitting the 
> login link then the create account link.
> There was a chance for an audio challenge but jaws said it was not 
> available.
> Bryan Schulz
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson via 
> nfbcs
> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2018 2:45 PM
> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Steve Jacobson <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] purpose of division
>
> Bryan,
>
> When trying to figure out the purpose of your messages I am always 
> left wondering if you really want an answer to questions or are you 
> just wanting a chance to take a shot at us.  I think, though, there is 
> a reasonable chance that trying to answer your questions is worthwhile.
>
> First, I don't know that NFBCS was ever seen as a vehicle for general 
> advocacy.  That has always been more a function of our national 
> organization as a whole.  As a long-time NFBCS member and officer, I 
> do feel we serve a useful purpose by working with specific companies 
> with which we have had long-term relationships and by trying to make 
> information available.  Also, people on this list can sometimes be a 
> useful resource in finding workarounds.  Collectively, we have 
> expertise that can help to understand why a problem exists and maybe 
> even help to prioritize which problems can likely be solved easily and 
> which cannot.
>
> I readily admit that it is sometimes difficult to know where it is 
> best to bring a concern about accessibility, though.  Sometimes some 
> of us can help with that.  The cold hard facts, though, are that we 
> still have too many accessibility issues to successfully deal with 
> every one brought to our attention.  One of the areas I volunteer in is
dealing with Microsoft.
> There are so many issues even with Microsoft that we are not able to 
> push all of them effectively, even though we've seen a good deal of
progress.
> Also, we need people who actually have the experience with a given 
> problem to help.  I know nothing about the testing software you 
> mention so can't deal with specifics of that very effectively.  I 
> don't remember exactly how you brought the accessible 
> comptia/Microsoft testing software  issues to NFBCS, but this isn't an 
> issue with which I was familiar.  If you describe the issue in more 
> detail, I am certainly willing to raise it with Microsoft whenever I 
> am next in a meeting with them.  Even so, sometimes we have to decide 
> where to push hardest.  An issue like this sometimes gets less 
> emphasis than an issue like not being able to enter a password in 
> Outlook when the credentials screen doesn't get focus because that may
affect more people.
>
> One also has to understand that there is no law that says everything 
> has to be accessible.  There are clear laws that require accessibility 
> in specific cases, but this means that we can't just launch a lawsuit 
> for any accessibility issue.  Sometimes the law covers institutions 
> that use a given pice of software and not the actual creators of 
> software, for example.
> This
> doesn't mean there isn't anything that can be done, but it can affect 
> the path taken, and it often means that solutions take a long time to 
> find.  We need help from our members sometimes to really understand a 
> problem and to document it and help us move forward with it.
>
> Finally, CAPTCHAs are a real challenge.  Some of us have been trying 
> to affect their use for a long time.  I share your fear that the use 
> of AIRA, Be My Eyes, and other such solutions may give some companies 
> an excuse not to do anything, and this cannot become acceptable.  
> Audio CAPTCHAs are pretty common now and you didn't say if the company 
> you dealt with had one or not.  This is a fairly accepted solution 
> among those who require CAPTCHAs, but it still leaves out those who 
> have both vision and hearing loss.  My experience has been that audio 
> CAPTCHAs are more reliable now than they have been in the past.  I 
> have personally looked at some alternatives that appear to work but 
> turn out to have limitations.  When you look at the ability of SIRI, 
> Alexa, and Google Home to analyze and break down the syntax of 
> questions asked of them, it is clear that most word problem solutions 
> offer limited protection from robots attempting to gain access to a
system.
> It is starting to appear that Google is a major player in CAPTCHAs,
though.
> Many companies use Google's CAPTCHA service.  Possibly that may 
> provide a useful pressure point.
>
> Bryan, I realize this is probably not a satisfactory answer.  Also, 
> the president of NFBCS may have more to say on this as well.  However, 
> laying out the specific problems you are having, even on this list, 
> can be helpful by making more of us aware of what people are 
> encountering.  Also, sometimes, it may turn out somebody else has 
> found a workaround or may be further along in pursuing a solution.  
> Finally, sometimes it is helpful to those of us who volunteer in this 
> area to be reminded of the common frustrations being encountered.  
> This can help us know, both as the NFBCS division and as an 
> organization as a whole, how we can most effectively approach issues.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Jacobson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nfbcs <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Bryan Schulz via 
> nfbcs
> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 3:49 PM
> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Bryan Schulz <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [nfbcs] purpose of division
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> This may be a bit off topic because it is actually a web site issue.
>
> In my opinion the cs division doesn't do much especially towards 
> advocacy with topics that affect using computers/web sites.
>
> Several months ago, there was no interest by the division to address 
> cisco software or the topic of accessible comptia/Microsoft testing
software.
>
>
>
> My point today deals with website captia systems.
>
> You have probably had to ask for visual assistance with what happens 
> after you check the box with the words 'I am not a robot'.
>
> Blind computer users are not going to know which pictures to click 
> when the instruction says something like click all of the stop signs.
>
> You will probably react by saying use aira and the person will tell 
> you where to move the mouse.
>
> Well the cheapest plan is about $50 a month for only 60 minutes of 
> help time and that shouldn't be required.
>
> I had to place an order today to get a great deal and couldn't wait 
> for someone to respond from the company and was able to create an 
> account after obtaining visual assistance.
>
>
>
> I continue to feel left to flap in the wind by the nfb/nfbcs and it 
> seems nothing is done once a year other than asking several people to 
> speak at the division meeting at the convention.
>
> I'm sure this will ruffle feathers but so what, nothing is being done 
> anyway so tell me the purpose of the division!
>
>
>
> Bryan Schulz
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
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