[NFBCS] Never Go Live Until The Bugs Are Killed!

[Amanda Lacy]

Tyler's comments have raised some questions for me.
I can tell someone when I'm unable to use their website, but I usually
can't tell them why. Unless it's something obvious like an image with
a weird name, I can't identify what's broken.
How can I provide the most useful information possible about what
needs to be fixed? Most people use a computing interface I can't
imagine using and vice versa, making communication even more
challenging.
As a blind person, how can I quickly develop a shared vocabulary with
someone who automatically uses very visual and mouse-centric terms?
As a blind person, is there a tool I can use to identify the code
behind a broken website feature?
Does there exist some action that would make the internet work better
for us if we all took it?
Learning the skill of writing good bug reports, maybe?
Basically, what can we do to fix it?

On 11/14/19, Peter Donahue via NFBCS <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hello Greg and everyone,
>
> 	Perhaps I should have said "Never Go Live Until the Known Bugs Are Killed."
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NFBCS [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Greg Kearney via
> NFBCS
> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2019 1:17 PM
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
> Cc: Greg Kearney
> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] Never Go Live Until The Bugs Are Killed!
>
> If you went by the adage of "Never Go Live Until The Bugs Are Killed!" you
> would never go live at all.
>
> Greg
>
>> On Nov 14, 2019, at 1:07 PM, Kevin via NFBCS <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Accessibility problems are not technically bugs but usability issues.
>> That's the first thing.  Yes, I know I'm splitting hairs with that one but
>> there you go.  Second, I am sure they took care of major bugs prior to
>> going live.  I'm sure they know the ropes.
>>
>>
>> On 11/14/2019 1:37 PM, Peter Donahue via NFBCS wrote:
>>> Good afternoon everyone,
>>>
>>> 	It's never exceptible for a new company Website to go live until all
>>> known bugs and potential issues such as accessibility for blind visitors
>>> have been resolved. Given Disney's past history of working with the NFB
>>> on Web accessibility they could have had us conduct beta tests prior to
>>> Disney Plus going live to the general public avoiding the backlash
>>> they're getting from the blind community.
>>>
>>> 	I used to build NFB Websites. Those who know remember that I never
>>> brought a site live until all known issues were resolved. I know of
>>> another well-known company that recently updated its World-Wide Website.
>>> Unlike Disney they invited several blind persons I know to work with the
>>> site development team at their corporate headquarters. When the new
>>> Website finally went live Mary and I along with others were very pleased
>>> with the work that was done to insure site accessibility. If more
>>> companies pursued partnerships with the blind community when preparing to
>>> launch a new website or to update existing sites we would have more of
>>> them. Viewing ourselves as the "Little fish in the sea" won't help
>>> matters either. Our ability to access Websites is as important as it is
>>> for other John Q. Public site visitors and we should behave like it.
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NFBCS [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kevin via
>>> NFBCS
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2019 10:50 AM
>>> To: Star Gazer
>>> Cc: Kevin; NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] Successfully Subscribed To Disney Plus
>>>
>>> Do to other responsibilities.  Site design, security issues such as
>>> handling bug reports, updating content, and many more things that go
>>> into it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/14/2019 11:08 AM, Star Gazer wrote:
>>>> Why though
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 14, 2019, at 10:36 AM, Kevin <kevinsisco61784 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It isn't acceptable it is simply a reality.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/14/2019 7:50 AM, Star Gazer wrote:
>>>>>>             Exactly right.
>>>>>> Why wouldn't be a number one priority when accessibility means that
>>>>>> they can legally part more customers from their money?
>>>>>> Why does the size of the corporation make bad behavior acceptable?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Kevin <kevinsisco61784 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 6:17 PM
>>>>>> To: Star Gazer <pickrellrebecca at gmail.com>; NFB in Computer Science
>>>>>> Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] Successfully Subscribed To Disney Plus
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They are a huge corporation and I'm sure they were getting it. Maybe
>>>>>> this wasn't there number one priority.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/13/2019 5:12 PM, Star Gazer wrote:
>>>>>>> Why? Disney should have gotten it right before the site ever went
>>>>>>> live.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 13, 2019, at 5:02 PM, Kevin via NFBCS <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I get what you're saying but that's life sometimes.  It is what it
>>>>>>>> is.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2019 12:52 PM, Tracy Carcione via NFBCS wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Sounds to me like there really was a problem, until Curtis spoke up
>>>>>>>>> and Disney fixed it.
>>>>>>>>> As for work-arounds to get accessibility, OK, to a point, but I am
>>>>>>>>> really tired of jumping through multiple hoops to get what other
>>>>>>>>> people just get as a matter of course.
>>>>>>>>> I'm glad things are working well now.
>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: NFBCS [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kevin
>>>>>>>>> via NFBCS
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2019 12:40 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kevin
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] Successfully Subscribed To Disney Plus
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is great news!  I think this just goes to show us that jumping
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> gun is never a good idea.  We must keep in mind that while things
>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>> not be perfectly accessible we always have workarounds.  As the
>>>>>>>>> saying
>>>>>>>>> goes there's more than one way to skin a cat.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/2019 11:10 PM, Peter Donahue via NFBCS wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                        This evening I successfully subscribed to
>>>>>>>>>> Disney Plus using
>>>>>>>>>> Firefox and JAWS 2019 under Windows 7. I was able to complete the
>>>>>>>>>> signup
>>>>>>>>>> process without assistance. I watched an episode of Disneynature
>>>>>>>>>> and began
>>>>>>>>>> adding content to our watchlist. The interface works similar to
>>>>>>>>>> Netflix.
>>>>>>>>>> Once I logged in I was able to navigate the website without
>>>>>>>>>> trouble.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                        While I was able to subscribe and explore
>>>>>>>>>> the Disney Plus
>>>>>>>>>> Website using Firefox it still doesn't work well with Google
>>>>>>>>>> Chrome. I was
>>>>>>>>>> able to move around without difficulty using Internet Explorer but
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> unable to get content to play. This looks to me like it's a matter
>>>>>>>>>> of a
>>>>>>>>>> missing IE component rather than an accessibility issue. We
>>>>>>>>>> obviously got
>>>>>>>>>> someone's attention at Disney Streaming to address the issues
>>>>>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>>>>>> are having with signing up for and using Disney Plus. Now to see
>>>>>>>>>> if the
>>>>>>>>>> English version of the Disney Plus Apps are available for iOS and
>>>>>>>>>> Apple TV.
>>>>>>>>>> I'll keep you posted on my progress. All the best.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>     Peter Donahue
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> NFBCS mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> NFBCS at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> NFBCS mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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