[NFBCS] best solution for remote linux terminal work

Sat Aug 8 10:42:41 UTC 2020

does anyone still use nano?

On 8/7/2020 5:45 PM, Chris Nestrud via NFBCS wrote:
> Brian,
>
> Thanks for the details. It sounds like cursor tracking may not have been
> working in your case, and I agree that an editor would be pretty much
> impossible to use in that situation. Once cursor tracking is working
> properly, you can navigate by line or character in vim and get correct
> feedback as the cursor moves. Routing
> JAWS cursor to PC cursor will work as you'd expect. For determining
> row and column information, I either check the Secure CRT status bar or
> use ctrl+g in vim (or the vim ruler). I almost never edit files locally
> because using vim is faster and/or I'm using sudo to access a different
> account where the files are located.
>
> As with Perl, there's more than one way to do it. Hopefully we've all
> given everyone some alternatives to consider.
>
> Chris
>
> On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 01:50:07PM -0700, Brian Buhrow wrote:
>> 	hello Chris.  I may be working from out of date knowledge, but here
>> goes.
>> In my view, the largest impediment to using a Windows based ssh client from
>> either the GUI or the command line is that once you've got a terminal open,
>> it's very difficult to know where the cursor is and how the screen is laid
>> out.  Yes, you can type and here responses, but if you're using a full
>> screen editor like vi/vim or a full screen browser like lynx, it's very
>> difficult to know where your cursor is on the screen.  The most common
>> problem I run into is if I'm in a Windows command line, and I open up a ssh
>> session and then, in that session, try to edit a file with vi, it's very
>> hard for me to tell what the X Y coordinates of a given character are in my
>> edit window.  This makes it very challenging to write well formatted
>> text or programs, i.e. C with proper indentation or Perl with proper
>> indentation or, a real must, python with proper indentation.  In my native
>> linux/Unix/Yasr environment, this is not a problem.  I can get the row and
>> column information for every character on my screen at any time.
>> 	It may be that Secure-CRT solves this problem, as you've suggested,
>> but I've not used that program.  I've used putty and openssh, which don't
>> provide that functionality with Jaws or NVDA as far as I'm aware.  In the
>> past I've asked VFO about this, and they don't seem to understand the
>> problem.  Perhaps they do now, but I haven't asked for a long time.
>> 	If it's more efficient for you to copy files from Linux and edit them
>> on your Windows machine, then copy them back up to the Linux machine when
>> you're done, so be it.  In my view, this is highly inefficient and fraught
>> with a lot of different issues, not the least of which is that Linux/Unix
>> use a different sequence of characters for representing new lines in files.
>> That can really trip you up when you're trying to edit configuration files
>> that are being read by programs that don't expect that variability.
>> 	Anyway, that,in a nut shell, is the most glaring issue I'm aware of.
>> -Brian
>> On Aug 7,  3:25pm, Chris Nestrud via NFBCS wrote:
>> } Subject: Re: [NFBCS] best solution for remote linux terminal work
>> } Brian,
>> }
>> } Just trying to get more information. Can you give a couple examples of
>> } how a Windows-based screen reader using a command-line ssh client is
>> } inferior to a Linux-based screen reader using a command-line ssh client?
>> } I know that cursor tracking can be hard to get right in some GUI
>> } Windows ssh clients, but it works well out of the box in command-line clients and in
>> } my experience it works quite well once properly configured in GUI
>> } clients provided that the screen reader plays nicely. I'm just trying to
>> } figure out the advantage of a separate Linux machine or VM given that
>> } it's a lot to set up just for an ssh client and the separate environment
>> } will make things such as copy/paste between Windows and Linux more
>> } difficult. For example I'll often copy the entire Secure CRT buffer,
>> } paste it into notepad, remove unneeded text, and paste the result in a
>> } Microsoft Teams message or email. What am I missing by not using Linux
>> } to host my ssh client?
>> }
>> } Chris
>> }
>> } On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 12:48:57PM -0700, Brian Buhrow via NFBCS wrote:
>> } > 	hello.   Another possibility is to install the Ubuntu software on
>> } > Windows 10 and use Yasr on the Ubuntu windows and Jaws or NVDA on the browser
>> } > windows.  If you're using a command line terminal environment, Linux screen
>> } > readers are far better than any Windows based screen readers and will make
>> } > you  much much more efficient in that environment.  I don't know what Jira
>> } > is, but if there is a way to get at it with a browser that's not javascript
>> } > capable, then the Lynx browser works very well in terminal environments and
>> } > wil give you full access.  The tmux program will allow you to cut and paste
>> } > from window to window inside your terminal environment.  Alternatively, if
>> } > there are command line tools that can access the Jira data, you might find
>> } > that is a better way to go.  Or, yet another way, is if you're handy with
>> } > scripting languages and curl, you may be able to write yourself some
>> } > scripts that put the data where you need it using curl.
>> } > 	I have not tried the Ubuntu under Windows environment yet, so don't
>> } > know if you can cut and paste between the two environments, but I'm
>> } > guessing you can, so that might be a sufficient solution for your needs.
>> } > 	What you'll find is that if you teach yourself how stuff works under
>> } > the hood, there are often different ways to get a job done and, by learning
>> } > that stuff, you'll find you increase your value as an employee.
>> } >
>> } > -thanks
>> } > -Brian
>> } >
>> } >
>> } > On Aug 7, 12:55pm, Ryan Boudwin wrote:
>> } > } Subject: Re: [NFBCS] best solution for remote linux terminal work
>> } > } --0000000000004f88fa05ac4e27bb
>> } > } Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> } > }
>> } > } I'd also need to be able to use web applications and copy and paste
>> } > } terminal output into JIRA; I'm concerned with how well that would work on a
>> } > } linux-only box. I haven't used a linux screen reader before but I have
>> } > } heard it's not the best experience.
>> } > }
>> } > } Best regards,
>> } > }
>> } > } Ryan Boudwin
>> } > } ryanboudwin at gmail.com
>> } > }
>> } > }
>> } > }
>> } > } On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:40 PM Brian Buhrow <buhrow at nfbcal.org> wrote:
>> } > }
>> } > } >         hello.  As a long time Unix person who uses terminals over ssh on a
>> } > } > daily basis with screen readers, I strongly recommend you build yourself a
>> } > } > Linux box and ssh to your remote sites from there.  Then, you can either
>> } > } > use Speakup or Yasr as your screen reader.  I use Yasr with the
>> } > } > eflite/flite
>> } > } > software speech engine.  This combination of software will give you full
>> } > } > access to screen oriented programs in terminal environments.  While I think
>> } > } > things are changing a bit, terminal access using Jaws, NVDA or VoiceOver
>> } > } > is, in my experience, doable, but very very suboptimal.  As proof of that,
>> } > } > you'll  probably get a number of folks writing back on this question
>> } > } > suggesting that terminal access works fine using the Windows screen
>> } > } > readers, but that you'll find it easier to edit files on the local Windows
>> } > } > machine and then transfer them up using scp or some other file transfer
>> } > } > protocol once you're done.  that is a very inefficient way to edit files on
>> } > } > remote servers.  The combination of software I suggest lets me edit files
>> } > } > with ease in their native environments on the servers on which they belong.
>> } > } >
>> } > } > Hope this helps.
>> } > } > -Brian
>> } > } >
>> } > } > On Aug 7, 11:59am, Ryan Boudwin via NFBCS wrote:
>> } > } > } Subject: [NFBCS] best solution for remote linux terminal work
>> } > } > } Hey folks,
>> } > } > }
>> } > } > } I am considering a return to a technical individual contributor role. The
>> } > } > } job requires a significant amount of terminal work, over SSH to remote
>> } > } > } linux servers.
>> } > } > }
>> } > } > } What OS/screen reader/ssh client combination is the best/easiest/most
>> } > } > } reliable to use? I have access to JAWS, NVDA or Voiceover as needed but I
>> } > } > } haven't done terminal work since my blindness hit.
>> } > } > }
>> } > } > } Best regards,
>> } > } > }
>> } > } > } Ryan Boudwin
>> } > } > } ryanboudwin at gmail.com
>> } > } > } _______________________________________________
>> } > } > } NFBCS mailing list
>> } > } > } NFBCS at nfbnet.org
>> } > } > } http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>> } > } > } To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> } > } > NFBCS:
>> } > } > }
>> } > } > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buhrow%40lothlorien.nfbcal.org
>> } > } > >-- End of excerpt from Ryan Boudwin via NFBCS
>> } > } >
>> } > } >
>> } > } >
>> } > }
>> } > } --0000000000004f88fa05ac4e27bb
>> } > } Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
>> } > } Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>> } > }
>> } > } <div dir=3D"ltr">I'd also need to be able to use web applications and c=
>> } > } opy and paste terminal output into JIRA; I'm concerned with how well th=
>> } > } at would work on a linux-only box. I haven't used a linux screen reader=
>> } > }  before but I have heard it's not the best experience.<div><br></div><d=
>> } > } iv><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_=
>> } > } signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Best regards,<div><br></div><div>Ryan Boudwin</=
>> } > } div><div><a href=3D"mailto:ryanboudwin at gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ryanbou=
>> } > } dwin at gmail.com</a></div><div><br></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><b=
>> } > } r><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, =
>> } > } Aug 7, 2020 at 12:40 PM Brian Buhrow <<a href=3D"mailto:buhrow at nfbcal.or=
>> } > } g">buhrow at nfbcal.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
>> } > } te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
>> } > } );padding-left:1ex">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 hello.=C2=A0 As a long time=
>> } > }  Unix person who uses terminals over ssh on a<br>
>> } > } daily basis with screen readers, I strongly recommend you build yourself a<=
>> } > } br>
>> } > } Linux box and ssh to your remote sites from there.=C2=A0 Then, you can eith=
>> } > } er<br>
>> } > } use Speakup or Yasr as your screen reader.=C2=A0 I use Yasr with the eflite=
>> } > } /flite<br>
>> } > } software speech engine.=C2=A0 This combination of software will give you fu=
>> } > } ll<br>
>> } > } access to screen oriented programs in terminal environments.=C2=A0 While I =
>> } > } think<br>
>> } > } things are changing a bit, terminal access using Jaws, NVDA or VoiceOver<br=
>> } > } >
>> } > } is, in my experience, doable, but very very suboptimal.=C2=A0 As proof of t=
>> } > } hat,<br>
>> } > } you'll=C2=A0 probably get a number of folks writing back on this questi=
>> } > } on<br>
>> } > } suggesting that terminal access works fine using the Windows screen<br>
>> } > } readers, but that you'll find it easier to edit files on the local Wind=
>> } > } ows<br>
>> } > } machine and then transfer them up using scp or some other file transfer<br>
>> } > } protocol once you're done.=C2=A0 that is a very inefficient way to edit=
>> } > }  files on<br>
>> } > } remote servers.=C2=A0 The combination of software I suggest lets me edit fi=
>> } > } les<br>
>> } > } with ease in their native environments on the servers on which they belong.=
>> } > } <br>
>> } > } <br>
>> } > } Hope this helps.<br>
>> } > } -Brian<br>
>> } > } <br>
>> } > } On Aug 7, 11:59am, Ryan Boudwin via NFBCS wrote:<br>
>> } > } } Subject: [NFBCS] best solution for remote linux terminal work<br>
>> } > } } Hey folks,<br>
>> } > } } <br>
>> } > } } I am considering a return to a technical individual contributor role. The=
>> } > } <br>
>> } > } } job requires a significant amount of terminal work, over SSH to remote<br=
>> } > } >
>> } > } } linux servers.<br>
>> } > } } <br>
>> } > } } What OS/screen reader/ssh client combination is the best/easiest/most<br>
>> } > } } reliable to use? I have access to JAWS, NVDA or Voiceover as needed but I=
>> } > } <br>
>> } > } } haven't done terminal work since my blindness hit.<br>
>> } > } } <br>
>> } > } } Best regards,<br>
>> } > } } <br>
>> } > } } Ryan Boudwin<br>
>> } > } } <a href=3D"mailto:ryanboudwin at gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ryanboudwin at gm=
>> } > } ail.com</a><br>
>> } > } } _______________________________________________<br>
>> } > } } NFBCS mailing list<br>
>> } > } } <a href=3D"mailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org" target=3D"_blank">NFBCS at nfbnet.org</a=
>> } > } ><br>
>> } > } } <a href=3D"http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org" rel=3D"no=
>> } > } referrer" target=3D"_blank">http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet=
>> } > } .org</a><br>
>> } > } } To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NFB=
>> } > } CS:<br>
>> } > } } <a href=3D"http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buhrow%40lo=
>> } > } thlorien.nfbcal.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://nfbnet.org=
>> } > } /mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buhrow%40lothlorien.nfbcal.org</a><br>
>> } > } >-- End of excerpt from Ryan Boudwin via NFBCS<br>
>> } > } <br>
>> } > } <br>
>> } > } </blockquote></div>
>> } > }
>> } > } --0000000000004f88fa05ac4e27bb--
>> } > >-- End of excerpt from Ryan Boudwin
>> } >
>> } >
>> } >
>> } > _______________________________________________
>> } > NFBCS mailing list
>> } > NFBCS at nfbnet.org
>> } > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
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>> } > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/ccn%40chrisnestrud.com
>> }
>> } _______________________________________________
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>> } NFBCS at nfbnet.org
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>>> -- End of excerpt from Chris Nestrud via NFBCS
>>
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