[NFBCS] best solution for remote linux terminal work

Jim Barbour jbar at barcore.com
Sun Aug 9 23:07:13 UTC 2020 

I managed to only read the first paragraph of your message before replying.

Brian Buhrow will be much better able to help with the remaining questions.

Sorry for being a bit tonedeaf here.

Jim

On Sun, Aug 09, 2020 at 02:44:40PM -0600, Ryan Boudwin via NFBCS wrote:
> So based on your feedback it seems like the best thing for me to do is
> going to be to stick with windows and just use yasr inside the windows
> subsystem for linux for my terminal work.
> 
> I am having trouble getting yasr to work, I get a connection refused error.
> 
> I am wondering if i missed a dependency and if my configuration is wrong.
> Could one of the yasr users on here share a sample config file that works?
> 
> From the man page it seems like i need to specify a synthesizer and a port
> number.
> 
> Which synthesizers work well with yasr? I have tried eflite but it doesn’t
> seem to be working.
> 
> I haven’t been able to find any documentation on which port to specify
> either.
> 
> On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 4:47 AM Gabe Vega Commtech LLC via NFBCS <
> nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> > does anyone still use nano?
> >
> > On 8/7/2020 5:45 PM, Chris Nestrud via NFBCS wrote:
> > > Brian,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the details. It sounds like cursor tracking may not have been
> > > working in your case, and I agree that an editor would be pretty much
> > > impossible to use in that situation. Once cursor tracking is working
> > > properly, you can navigate by line or character in vim and get correct
> > > feedback as the cursor moves. Routing
> > > JAWS cursor to PC cursor will work as you'd expect. For determining
> > > row and column information, I either check the Secure CRT status bar or
> > > use ctrl+g in vim (or the vim ruler). I almost never edit files locally
> > > because using vim is faster and/or I'm using sudo to access a different
> > > account where the files are located.
> > >
> > > As with Perl, there's more than one way to do it. Hopefully we've all
> > > given everyone some alternatives to consider.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 01:50:07PM -0700, Brian Buhrow wrote:
> > >>      hello Chris.  I may be working from out of date knowledge, but here
> > >> goes.
> > >> In my view, the largest impediment to using a Windows based ssh client
> > from
> > >> either the GUI or the command line is that once you've got a terminal
> > open,
> > >> it's very difficult to know where the cursor is and how the screen is
> > laid
> > >> out.  Yes, you can type and here responses, but if you're using a full
> > >> screen editor like vi/vim or a full screen browser like lynx, it's very
> > >> difficult to know where your cursor is on the screen.  The most common
> > >> problem I run into is if I'm in a Windows command line, and I open up a
> > ssh
> > >> session and then, in that session, try to edit a file with vi, it's very
> > >> hard for me to tell what the X Y coordinates of a given character are
> > in my
> > >> edit window.  This makes it very challenging to write well formatted
> > >> text or programs, i.e. C with proper indentation or Perl with proper
> > >> indentation or, a real must, python with proper indentation.  In my
> > native
> > >> linux/Unix/Yasr environment, this is not a problem.  I can get the row
> > and
> > >> column information for every character on my screen at any time.
> > >>      It may be that Secure-CRT solves this problem, as you've suggested,
> > >> but I've not used that program.  I've used putty and openssh, which
> > don't
> > >> provide that functionality with Jaws or NVDA as far as I'm aware.  In
> > the
> > >> past I've asked VFO about this, and they don't seem to understand the
> > >> problem.  Perhaps they do now, but I haven't asked for a long time.
> > >>      If it's more efficient for you to copy files from Linux and edit
> > them
> > >> on your Windows machine, then copy them back up to the Linux machine
> > when
> > >> you're done, so be it.  In my view, this is highly inefficient and
> > fraught
> > >> with a lot of different issues, not the least of which is that
> > Linux/Unix
> > >> use a different sequence of characters for representing new lines in
> > files.
> > >> That can really trip you up when you're trying to edit configuration
> > files
> > >> that are being read by programs that don't expect that variability.
> > >>      Anyway, that,in a nut shell, is the most glaring issue I'm aware
> > of.
> > >> -Brian
> > >> On Aug 7,  3:25pm, Chris Nestrud via NFBCS wrote:
> > >> } Subject: Re: [NFBCS] best solution for remote linux terminal work
> > >> } Brian,
> > >> }
> > >> } Just trying to get more information. Can you give a couple examples of
> > >> } how a Windows-based screen reader using a command-line ssh client is
> > >> } inferior to a Linux-based screen reader using a command-line ssh
> > client?
> > >> } I know that cursor tracking can be hard to get right in some GUI
> > >> } Windows ssh clients, but it works well out of the box in command-line
> > clients and in
> > >> } my experience it works quite well once properly configured in GUI
> > >> } clients provided that the screen reader plays nicely. I'm just trying
> > to
> > >> } figure out the advantage of a separate Linux machine or VM given that
> > >> } it's a lot to set up just for an ssh client and the separate
> > environment
> > >> } will make things such as copy/paste between Windows and Linux more
> > >> } difficult. For example I'll often copy the entire Secure CRT buffer,
> > >> } paste it into notepad, remove unneeded text, and paste the result in a
> > >> } Microsoft Teams message or email. What am I missing by not using Linux
> > >> } to host my ssh client?
> > >> }
> > >> } Chris
> > >> }
> > >> } On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 12:48:57PM -0700, Brian Buhrow via NFBCS
> > wrote:
> > >> } >  hello.   Another possibility is to install the Ubuntu software on
> > >> } > Windows 10 and use Yasr on the Ubuntu windows and Jaws or NVDA on
> > the browser
> > >> } > windows.  If you're using a command line terminal environment,
> > Linux screen
> > >> } > readers are far better than any Windows based screen readers and
> > will make
> > >> } > you  much much more efficient in that environment.  I don't know
> > what Jira
> > >> } > is, but if there is a way to get at it with a browser that's not
> > javascript
> > >> } > capable, then the Lynx browser works very well in terminal
> > environments and
> > >> } > wil give you full access.  The tmux program will allow you to cut
> > and paste
> > >> } > from window to window inside your terminal environment.
> > Alternatively, if
> > >> } > there are command line tools that can access the Jira data, you
> > might find
> > >> } > that is a better way to go.  Or, yet another way, is if you're
> > handy with
> > >> } > scripting languages and curl, you may be able to write yourself some
> > >> } > scripts that put the data where you need it using curl.
> > >> } >  I have not tried the Ubuntu under Windows environment yet, so don't
> > >> } > know if you can cut and paste between the two environments, but I'm
> > >> } > guessing you can, so that might be a sufficient solution for your
> > needs.
> > >> } >  What you'll find is that if you teach yourself how stuff works
> > under
> > >> } > the hood, there are often different ways to get a job done and, by
> > learning
> > >> } > that stuff, you'll find you increase your value as an employee.
> > >> } >
> > >> } > -thanks
> > >> } > -Brian
> > >> } >
> > >> } >
> > >> } > On Aug 7, 12:55pm, Ryan Boudwin wrote:
> > >> } > } Subject: Re: [NFBCS] best solution for remote linux terminal work
> > >> } > } --0000000000004f88fa05ac4e27bb
> > >> } > } Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > >> } > }
> > >> } > } I'd also need to be able to use web applications and copy and
> > paste
> > >> } > } terminal output into JIRA; I'm concerned with how well that would
> > work on a
> > >> } > } linux-only box. I haven't used a linux screen reader before but I
> > have
> > >> } > } heard it's not the best experience.
> > >> } > }
> > >> } > } Best regards,
> > >> } > }
> > >> } > } Ryan Boudwin
> > >> } > } ryanboudwin at gmail.com
> > >> } > }
> > >> } > }
> > >> } > }
> > >> } > } On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:40 PM Brian Buhrow <buhrow at nfbcal.org>
> > wrote:
> > >> } > }
> > >> } > } >         hello.  As a long time Unix person who uses terminals
> > over ssh on a
> > >> } > } > daily basis with screen readers, I strongly recommend you build
> > yourself a
> > >> } > } > Linux box and ssh to your remote sites from there.  Then, you
> > can either
> > >> } > } > use Speakup or Yasr as your screen reader.  I use Yasr with the
> > >> } > } > eflite/flite
> > >> } > } > software speech engine.  This combination of software will give
> > you full
> > >> } > } > access to screen oriented programs in terminal environments.
> > While I think
> > >> } > } > things are changing a bit, terminal access using Jaws, NVDA or
> > VoiceOver
> > >> } > } > is, in my experience, doable, but very very suboptimal.  As
> > proof of that,
> > >> } > } > you'll  probably get a number of folks writing back on this
> > question
> > >> } > } > suggesting that terminal access works fine using the Windows
> > screen
> > >> } > } > readers, but that you'll find it easier to edit files on the
> > local Windows
> > >> } > } > machine and then transfer them up using scp or some other file
> > transfer
> > >> } > } > protocol once you're done.  that is a very inefficient way to
> > edit files on
> > >> } > } > remote servers.  The combination of software I suggest lets me
> > edit files
> > >> } > } > with ease in their native environments on the servers on which
> > they belong.
> > >> } > } >
> > >> } > } > Hope this helps.
> > >> } > } > -Brian
> > >> } > } >
> > >> } > } > On Aug 7, 11:59am, Ryan Boudwin via NFBCS wrote:
> > >> } > } > } Subject: [NFBCS] best solution for remote linux terminal work
> > >> } > } > } Hey folks,
> > >> } > } > }
> > >> } > } > } I am considering a return to a technical individual
> > contributor role. The
> > >> } > } > } job requires a significant amount of terminal work, over SSH
> > to remote
> > >> } > } > } linux servers.
> > >> } > } > }
> > >> } > } > } What OS/screen reader/ssh client combination is the
> > best/easiest/most
> > >> } > } > } reliable to use? I have access to JAWS, NVDA or Voiceover as
> > needed but I
> > >> } > } > } haven't done terminal work since my blindness hit.
> > >> } > } > }
> > >> } > } > } Best regards,
> > >> } > } > }
> > >> } > } > } Ryan Boudwin
> > >> } > } > } ryanboudwin at gmail.com
> > >> } > } > } _______________________________________________
> > >> } > } > } NFBCS mailing list
> > >> } > } > } NFBCS at nfbnet.org
> > >> } > } > } http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> > >> } > } > } To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> > info for
> > >> } > } > NFBCS:
> > >> } > } > }
> > >> } > } >
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buhrow%40lothlorien.nfbcal.org
> > >> } > } > >-- End of excerpt from Ryan Boudwin via NFBCS
> > >> } > } >
> > >> } > } >
> > >> } > } >
> > >> } > }
> > >> } > } --0000000000004f88fa05ac4e27bb
> > >> } > } Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
> > >> } > } Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> > >> } > }
> > >> } > } <div dir=3D"ltr">I'd also need to be able to use web
> > applications and c=
> > >> } > } opy and paste terminal output into JIRA; I'm concerned with
> > how well th=
> > >> } > } at would work on a linux-only box. I haven't used a linux
> > screen reader=
> > >> } > }  before but I have heard it's not the best
> > experience.<div><br></div><d=
> > >> } > } iv><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"
> > data-smartmail=3D"gmail_=
> > >> } > } signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Best regards,<div><br></div><div>Ryan
> > Boudwin</=
> > >> } > } div><div><a href=3D"mailto:ryanboudwin at gmail.com"
> > target=3D"_blank">ryanbou=
> > >> } > } dwin at gmail.com
> > </a></div><div><br></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><b=
> > >> } > } r><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"
> > class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, =
> > >> } > } Aug 7, 2020 at 12:40 PM Brian Buhrow <<a href=3D"mailto:
> > buhrow at nfbcal.or=
> > >> } > } g">buhrow at nfbcal.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote
> > class=3D"gmail_quo=
> > >> } > } te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
> > rgb(204,204,204=
> > >> } > } );padding-left:1ex">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 hello.=C2=A0 As a
> > long time=
> > >> } > }  Unix person who uses terminals over ssh on a<br>
> > >> } > } daily basis with screen readers, I strongly recommend you build
> > yourself a<=
> > >> } > } br>
> > >> } > } Linux box and ssh to your remote sites from there.=C2=A0 Then,
> > you can eith=
> > >> } > } er<br>
> > >> } > } use Speakup or Yasr as your screen reader.=C2=A0 I use Yasr with
> > the eflite=
> > >> } > } /flite<br>
> > >> } > } software speech engine.=C2=A0 This combination of software will
> > give you fu=
> > >> } > } ll<br>
> > >> } > } access to screen oriented programs in terminal
> > environments.=C2=A0 While I =
> > >> } > } think<br>
> > >> } > } things are changing a bit, terminal access using Jaws, NVDA or
> > VoiceOver<br=
> > >> } > } >
> > >> } > } is, in my experience, doable, but very very suboptimal.=C2=A0 As
> > proof of t=
> > >> } > } hat,<br>
> > >> } > } you'll=C2=A0 probably get a number of folks writing back on
> > this questi=
> > >> } > } on<br>
> > >> } > } suggesting that terminal access works fine using the Windows
> > screen<br>
> > >> } > } readers, but that you'll find it easier to edit files on the
> > local Wind=
> > >> } > } ows<br>
> > >> } > } machine and then transfer them up using scp or some other file
> > transfer<br>
> > >> } > } protocol once you're done.=C2=A0 that is a very inefficient
> > way to edit=
> > >> } > }  files on<br>
> > >> } > } remote servers.=C2=A0 The combination of software I suggest lets
> > me edit fi=
> > >> } > } les<br>
> > >> } > } with ease in their native environments on the servers on which
> > they belong.=
> > >> } > } <br>
> > >> } > } <br>
> > >> } > } Hope this helps.<br>
> > >> } > } -Brian<br>
> > >> } > } <br>
> > >> } > } On Aug 7, 11:59am, Ryan Boudwin via NFBCS wrote:<br>
> > >> } > } } Subject: [NFBCS] best solution for remote linux terminal
> > work<br>
> > >> } > } } Hey folks,<br>
> > >> } > } } <br>
> > >> } > } } I am considering a return to a technical individual contributor
> > role. The=
> > >> } > } <br>
> > >> } > } } job requires a significant amount of terminal work, over SSH to
> > remote<br=
> > >> } > } >
> > >> } > } } linux servers.<br>
> > >> } > } } <br>
> > >> } > } } What OS/screen reader/ssh client combination is the
> > best/easiest/most<br>
> > >> } > } } reliable to use? I have access to JAWS, NVDA or Voiceover as
> > needed but I=
> > >> } > } <br>
> > >> } > } } haven't done terminal work since my blindness hit.<br>
> > >> } > } } <br>
> > >> } > } } Best regards,<br>
> > >> } > } } <br>
> > >> } > } } Ryan Boudwin<br>
> > >> } > } } <a href=3D"mailto:ryanboudwin at gmail.com"
> > target=3D"_blank">ryanboudwin at gm=
> > >> } > } ail.com</a><br>
> > >> } > } } _______________________________________________<br>
> > >> } > } } NFBCS mailing list<br>
> > >> } > } } <a href=3D"mailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org" target=3D"_blank">
> > NFBCS at nfbnet.org</a=
> > >> } > } ><br>
> > >> } > } } <a href=3D"http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org"
> > rel=3D"no=
> > >> } > } referrer" target=3D"_blank">
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet=
> > >> } > } .org</a><br>
> > >> } > } } To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> > info for NFB=
> > >> } > } CS:<br>
> > >> } > } } <a href=3D"
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buhrow%40lo=
> > >> } > } thlorien.nfbcal.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">
> > http://nfbnet.org=
> > >> } > } /mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buhrow%40lothlorien.nfbcal.org
> > </a><br>
> > >> } > } >-- End of excerpt from Ryan Boudwin via NFBCS<br>
> > >> } > } <br>
> > >> } > } <br>
> > >> } > } </blockquote></div>
> > >> } > }
> > >> } > } --0000000000004f88fa05ac4e27bb--
> > >> } > >-- End of excerpt from Ryan Boudwin
> > >> } >
> > >> } >
> > >> } >
> > >> } > _______________________________________________
> > >> } > NFBCS mailing list
> > >> } > NFBCS at nfbnet.org
> > >> } > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> > >> } > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for NFBCS:
> > >> } >
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/ccn%40chrisnestrud.com
> > >> }
> > >> } _______________________________________________
> > >> } NFBCS mailing list
> > >> } NFBCS at nfbnet.org
> > >> } http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> > >> } To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > NFBCS:
> > >> }
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buhrow%40lothlorien.nfbcal.org
> > >>> -- End of excerpt from Chris Nestrud via NFBCS
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > NFBCS mailing list
> > > NFBCS at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
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> > NFBCS:
> > >
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/gabe.vega%40commtechusa.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NFBCS mailing list
> > NFBCS at nfbnet.org
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> > NFBCS:
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> >
> -- 
> Best regards,
> 
> Ryan Boudwin
> ryanboudwin at gmail.com
> (801) 928-3259 (mobile)
> _______________________________________________
> NFBCS mailing list
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