[NFBCS] best solution for remote linux terminal work

Mike Gorse mike at straddlethebox.org
Mon Aug 10 02:17:07 UTC 2020 

A few things:

I haven't tested yasr or eflite on WSL so far, although it sounds like it 
should be on my list of things to do. (Does WSL require Windows 10 these 
days, or does it still work on Windows 7? I've been considering replacing 
my old netbook that I use when I want to use Windows; just haven't been 
able to bring myself to spend the money to do it since I don't use Windows 
that often).

Yasr.conf now assumes speech-dispatcher by default. To use eflite, you'll 
need to adjust the Synthesizer line (there should be a commented line for 
an emacspeak server) and set "Synthesizer port" to |/usr/local/bin/eflite 
(or wherever your eflite binary is). As an aside, the speech-dispatcher 
support has some bit rot that I haven't taken the time to fix 
(speech-dispatcher no longer uses a tcp connection by default).

You can test whether eflite is working by running it and entering 
something like the following:
q {test}
d

You should then hear "test". If you don't, then something isn't working.

I've moved both yasr and eflite to github. I've made a few changes to 
eflite to try to fix some issues but haven't made a new release so far.
https://github.com/mgorse/yasr.git
https://github.com/mgorse/eflite.git

Anyway, sorry that this isn't more helpful.

-Mike

On Sun, 9 Aug 2020, Brian Buhrow via NFBCS wrote:

> 	Hello.  Jim is right.  The first thing you want to do is make sure
> eflite/flite can give you audio from the Linux system.  Steps are something
> like:
>
> 0.  Make sure you know how to get audio to play through your Windows
> computer that was generated on the Linux system you're running inside it.
>
> 1.  Install flite.  When you can get it to read you the Alice test file,
> you're getting pretty close.
>
> 2.  Install eflite from Mike Gorse's Yasr repository.
>
> 3.  Install Yasr.
>
> 	There used to be a bug in Flite where you couldn't get good speech
> interruptability due to some confusion about which ioctl's it used to
> manage the sound device.  I assume that problem is fixed, but if you find,
> after you get it talking, that you can't make speech stop when you ask it
> to, then let us know.  I have read mixed reviews of Pulse Audio.  There are
> times when it works great and does exactly what you want, which is mostly
> get out of the way, but there are other times when it becomes a huge
> headache and needs to  be discarded.  I'm sure this depends on the
> configuration of the particular Linux distro you're using, as well as what
> specific hardware you have.  All this is to say that the most important
> step, and probably the most difficult, is to figure out the working
> mechanics of your Linux system's  audio subsystem.  Once you get that
> working, you're 80% of the way there.
> -thanks
> -Brian
>
> On Aug 9,  4:07pm, Jim Barbour via NFBCS wrote:
> } Subject: Re: [NFBCS] best solution for remote linux terminal work
> } I managed to only read the first paragraph of your message before replying.
> }
> } Brian Buhrow will be much better able to help with the remaining questions.
> }
> } Sorry for being a bit tonedeaf here.
> }
> } Jim
> }
> } On Sun, Aug 09, 2020 at 02:44:40PM -0600, Ryan Boudwin via NFBCS wrote:
> } > So based on your feedback it seems like the best thing for me to do is
> } > going to be to stick with windows and just use yasr inside the windows
> } > subsystem for linux for my terminal work.
> } >
> } > I am having trouble getting yasr to work, I get a connection refused error.
> } >
> } > I am wondering if i missed a dependency and if my configuration is wrong.
> } > Could one of the yasr users on here share a sample config file that works?
> } >
> } > From the man page it seems like i need to specify a synthesizer and a port
> } > number.
> } >
> } > Which synthesizers work well with yasr? I have tried eflite but it doesn???t
> } > seem to be working.
> } >
> } > I haven???t been able to find any documentation on which port to specify
> } > either.
> } >
> } > On Sat, Aug 8, 2020 at 4:47 AM Gabe Vega Commtech LLC via NFBCS <
> } > nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> } >
> } > > does anyone still use nano?
> } > >
> } > > On 8/7/2020 5:45 PM, Chris Nestrud via NFBCS wrote:
> } > > > Brian,
> } > > >
> } > > > Thanks for the details. It sounds like cursor tracking may not have been
> } > > > working in your case, and I agree that an editor would be pretty much
> } > > > impossible to use in that situation. Once cursor tracking is working
> } > > > properly, you can navigate by line or character in vim and get correct
> } > > > feedback as the cursor moves. Routing
> } > > > JAWS cursor to PC cursor will work as you'd expect. For determining
> } > > > row and column information, I either check the Secure CRT status bar or
> } > > > use ctrl+g in vim (or the vim ruler). I almost never edit files locally
> } > > > because using vim is faster and/or I'm using sudo to access a different
> } > > > account where the files are located.
> } > > >
> } > > > As with Perl, there's more than one way to do it. Hopefully we've all
> } > > > given everyone some alternatives to consider.
> } > > >
> } > > > Chris
> } > > >
> } > > > On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 01:50:07PM -0700, Brian Buhrow wrote:
> } > > >>      hello Chris.  I may be working from out of date knowledge, but here
> } > > >> goes.
> } > > >> In my view, the largest impediment to using a Windows based ssh client
> } > > from
> } > > >> either the GUI or the command line is that once you've got a terminal
> } > > open,
> } > > >> it's very difficult to know where the cursor is and how the screen is
> } > > laid
> } > > >> out.  Yes, you can type and here responses, but if you're using a full
> } > > >> screen editor like vi/vim or a full screen browser like lynx, it's very
> } > > >> difficult to know where your cursor is on the screen.  The most common
> } > > >> problem I run into is if I'm in a Windows command line, and I open up a
> } > > ssh
> } > > >> session and then, in that session, try to edit a file with vi, it's very
> } > > >> hard for me to tell what the X Y coordinates of a given character are
> } > > in my
> } > > >> edit window.  This makes it very challenging to write well formatted
> } > > >> text or programs, i.e. C with proper indentation or Perl with proper
> } > > >> indentation or, a real must, python with proper indentation.  In my
> } > > native
> } > > >> linux/Unix/Yasr environment, this is not a problem.  I can get the row
> } > > and
> } > > >> column information for every character on my screen at any time.
> } > > >>      It may be that Secure-CRT solves this problem, as you've suggested,
> } > > >> but I've not used that program.  I've used putty and openssh, which
> } > > don't
> } > > >> provide that functionality with Jaws or NVDA as far as I'm aware.  In
> } > > the
> } > > >> past I've asked VFO about this, and they don't seem to understand the
> } > > >> problem.  Perhaps they do now, but I haven't asked for a long time.
> } > > >>      If it's more efficient for you to copy files from Linux and edit
> } > > them
> } > > >> on your Windows machine, then copy them back up to the Linux machine
> } > > when
> } > > >> you're done, so be it.  In my view, this is highly inefficient and
> } > > fraught
> } > > >> with a lot of different issues, not the least of which is that
> } > > Linux/Unix
> } > > >> use a different sequence of characters for representing new lines in
> } > > files.
> } > > >> That can really trip you up when you're trying to edit configuration
> } > > files
> } > > >> that are being read by programs that don't expect that variability.
> } > > >>      Anyway, that,in a nut shell, is the most glaring issue I'm aware
> } > > of.
> } > > >> -Brian
> } > > >> On Aug 7,  3:25pm, Chris Nestrud via NFBCS wrote:
> } > > >> } Subject: Re: [NFBCS] best solution for remote linux terminal work
> } > > >> } Brian,
> } > > >> }
> } > > >> } Just trying to get more information. Can you give a couple examples of
> } > > >> } how a Windows-based screen reader using a command-line ssh client is
> } > > >> } inferior to a Linux-based screen reader using a command-line ssh
> } > > client?
> } > > >> } I know that cursor tracking can be hard to get right in some GUI
> } > > >> } Windows ssh clients, but it works well out of the box in command-line
> } > > clients and in
> } > > >> } my experience it works quite well once properly configured in GUI
> } > > >> } clients provided that the screen reader plays nicely. I'm just trying
> } > > to
> } > > >> } figure out the advantage of a separate Linux machine or VM given that
> } > > >> } it's a lot to set up just for an ssh client and the separate
> } > > environment
> } > > >> } will make things such as copy/paste between Windows and Linux more
> } > > >> } difficult. For example I'll often copy the entire Secure CRT buffer,
> } > > >> } paste it into notepad, remove unneeded text, and paste the result in a
> } > > >> } Microsoft Teams message or email. What am I missing by not using Linux
> } > > >> } to host my ssh client?
> } > > >> }
> } > > >> } Chris
> } > > >> }
> } > > >> } On Fri, Aug 07, 2020 at 12:48:57PM -0700, Brian Buhrow via NFBCS
> } > > wrote:
> } > > >> } >  hello.   Another possibility is to install the Ubuntu software on
> } > > >> } > Windows 10 and use Yasr on the Ubuntu windows and Jaws or NVDA on
> } > > the browser
> } > > >> } > windows.  If you're using a command line terminal environment,
> } > > Linux screen
> } > > >> } > readers are far better than any Windows based screen readers and
> } > > will make
> } > > >> } > you  much much more efficient in that environment.  I don't know
> } > > what Jira
> } > > >> } > is, but if there is a way to get at it with a browser that's not
> } > > javascript
> } > > >> } > capable, then the Lynx browser works very well in terminal
> } > > environments and
> } > > >> } > wil give you full access.  The tmux program will allow you to cut
> } > > and paste
> } > > >> } > from window to window inside your terminal environment.
> } > > Alternatively, if
> } > > >> } > there are command line tools that can access the Jira data, you
> } > > might find
> } > > >> } > that is a better way to go.  Or, yet another way, is if you're
> } > > handy with
> } > > >> } > scripting languages and curl, you may be able to write yourself some
> } > > >> } > scripts that put the data where you need it using curl.
> } > > >> } >  I have not tried the Ubuntu under Windows environment yet, so don't
> } > > >> } > know if you can cut and paste between the two environments, but I'm
> } > > >> } > guessing you can, so that might be a sufficient solution for your
> } > > needs.
> } > > >> } >  What you'll find is that if you teach yourself how stuff works
> } > > under
> } > > >> } > the hood, there are often different ways to get a job done and, by
> } > > learning
> } > > >> } > that stuff, you'll find you increase your value as an employee.
> } > > >> } >
> } > > >> } > -thanks
> } > > >> } > -Brian
> } > > >> } >
> } > > >> } >
> } > > >> } > On Aug 7, 12:55pm, Ryan Boudwin wrote:
> } > > >> } > } Subject: Re: [NFBCS] best solution for remote linux terminal work
> } > > >> } > } --0000000000004f88fa05ac4e27bb
> } > > >> } > } Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> } > > >> } > }
> } > > >> } > } I'd also need to be able to use web applications and copy and
> } > > paste
> } > > >> } > } terminal output into JIRA; I'm concerned with how well that would
> } > > work on a
> } > > >> } > } linux-only box. I haven't used a linux screen reader before but I
> } > > have
> } > > >> } > } heard it's not the best experience.
> } > > >> } > }
> } > > >> } > } Best regards,
> } > > >> } > }
> } > > >> } > } Ryan Boudwin
> } > > >> } > } ryanboudwin at gmail.com
> } > > >> } > }
> } > > >> } > }
> } > > >> } > }
> } > > >> } > } On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:40 PM Brian Buhrow <buhrow at nfbcal.org>
> } > > wrote:
> } > > >> } > }
> } > > >> } > } >         hello.  As a long time Unix person who uses terminals
> } > > over ssh on a
> } > > >> } > } > daily basis with screen readers, I strongly recommend you build
> } > > yourself a
> } > > >> } > } > Linux box and ssh to your remote sites from there.  Then, you
> } > > can either
> } > > >> } > } > use Speakup or Yasr as your screen reader.  I use Yasr with the
> } > > >> } > } > eflite/flite
> } > > >> } > } > software speech engine.  This combination of software will give
> } > > you full
> } > > >> } > } > access to screen oriented programs in terminal environments.
> } > > While I think
> } > > >> } > } > things are changing a bit, terminal access using Jaws, NVDA or
> } > > VoiceOver
> } > > >> } > } > is, in my experience, doable, but very very suboptimal.  As
> } > > proof of that,
> } > > >> } > } > you'll  probably get a number of folks writing back on this
> } > > question
> } > > >> } > } > suggesting that terminal access works fine using the Windows
> } > > screen
> } > > >> } > } > readers, but that you'll find it easier to edit files on the
> } > > local Windows
> } > > >> } > } > machine and then transfer them up using scp or some other file
> } > > transfer
> } > > >> } > } > protocol once you're done.  that is a very inefficient way to
> } > > edit files on
> } > > >> } > } > remote servers.  The combination of software I suggest lets me
> } > > edit files
> } > > >> } > } > with ease in their native environments on the servers on which
> } > > they belong.
> } > > >> } > } >
> } > > >> } > } > Hope this helps.
> } > > >> } > } > -Brian
> } > > >> } > } >
> } > > >> } > } > On Aug 7, 11:59am, Ryan Boudwin via NFBCS wrote:
> } > > >> } > } > } Subject: [NFBCS] best solution for remote linux terminal work
> } > > >> } > } > } Hey folks,
> } > > >> } > } > }
> } > > >> } > } > } I am considering a return to a technical individual
> } > > contributor role. The
> } > > >> } > } > } job requires a significant amount of terminal work, over SSH
> } > > to remote
> } > > >> } > } > } linux servers.
> } > > >> } > } > }
> } > > >> } > } > } What OS/screen reader/ssh client combination is the
> } > > best/easiest/most
> } > > >> } > } > } reliable to use? I have access to JAWS, NVDA or Voiceover as
> } > > needed but I
> } > > >> } > } > } haven't done terminal work since my blindness hit.
> } > > >> } > } > }
> } > > >> } > } > } Best regards,
> } > > >> } > } > }
> } > > >> } > } > } Ryan Boudwin
> } > > >> } > } > } ryanboudwin at gmail.com
> } > > >> } > } > } _______________________________________________
> } > > >> } > } > } NFBCS mailing list
> } > > >> } > } > } NFBCS at nfbnet.org
> } > > >> } > } > } http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> } > > >> } > } > } To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> } > > info for
> } > > >> } > } > NFBCS:
> } > > >> } > } > }
> } > > >> } > } >
> } > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buhrow%40lothlorien.nfbcal.org
> } > > >> } > } > >-- End of excerpt from Ryan Boudwin via NFBCS
> } > > >> } > } >
> } > > >> } > } >
> } > > >> } > } >
> } > > >> } > }
> } > > >> } > } --0000000000004f88fa05ac4e27bb
> } > > >> } > } Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
> } > > >> } > } Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> } > > >> } > }
> } > > >> } > } <div dir=3D"ltr">I'd also need to be able to use web
> } > > applications and c=
> } > > >> } > } opy and paste terminal output into JIRA; I'm concerned with
> } > > how well th=
> } > > >> } > } at would work on a linux-only box. I haven't used a linux
> } > > screen reader=
> } > > >> } > }  before but I have heard it's not the best
> } > > experience.<div><br></div><d=
> } > > >> } > } iv><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"
> } > > data-smartmail=3D"gmail_=
> } > > >> } > } signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Best regards,<div><br></div><div>Ryan
> } > > Boudwin</=
> } > > >> } > } div><div><a href=3D"mailto:ryanboudwin at gmail.com"
> } > > target=3D"_blank">ryanbou=
> } > > >> } > } dwin at gmail.com
> } > > </a></div><div><br></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><b=
> } > > >> } > } r><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"
> } > > class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, =
> } > > >> } > } Aug 7, 2020 at 12:40 PM Brian Buhrow <<a href=3D"mailto:
> } > > buhrow at nfbcal.or=
> } > > >> } > } g">buhrow at nfbcal.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote
> } > > class=3D"gmail_quo=
> } > > >> } > } te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
> } > > rgb(204,204,204=
> } > > >> } > } );padding-left:1ex">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 hello.=C2=A0 As a
> } > > long time=
> } > > >> } > }  Unix person who uses terminals over ssh on a<br>
> } > > >> } > } daily basis with screen readers, I strongly recommend you build
> } > > yourself a<=
> } > > >> } > } br>
> } > > >> } > } Linux box and ssh to your remote sites from there.=C2=A0 Then,
> } > > you can eith=
> } > > >> } > } er<br>
> } > > >> } > } use Speakup or Yasr as your screen reader.=C2=A0 I use Yasr with
> } > > the eflite=
> } > > >> } > } /flite<br>
> } > > >> } > } software speech engine.=C2=A0 This combination of software will
> } > > give you fu=
> } > > >> } > } ll<br>
> } > > >> } > } access to screen oriented programs in terminal
> } > > environments.=C2=A0 While I =
> } > > >> } > } think<br>
> } > > >> } > } things are changing a bit, terminal access using Jaws, NVDA or
> } > > VoiceOver<br=
> } > > >> } > } >
> } > > >> } > } is, in my experience, doable, but very very suboptimal.=C2=A0 As
> } > > proof of t=
> } > > >> } > } hat,<br>
> } > > >> } > } you'll=C2=A0 probably get a number of folks writing back on
> } > > this questi=
> } > > >> } > } on<br>
> } > > >> } > } suggesting that terminal access works fine using the Windows
> } > > screen<br>
> } > > >> } > } readers, but that you'll find it easier to edit files on the
> } > > local Wind=
> } > > >> } > } ows<br>
> } > > >> } > } machine and then transfer them up using scp or some other file
> } > > transfer<br>
> } > > >> } > } protocol once you're done.=C2=A0 that is a very inefficient
> } > > way to edit=
> } > > >> } > }  files on<br>
> } > > >> } > } remote servers.=C2=A0 The combination of software I suggest lets
> } > > me edit fi=
> } > > >> } > } les<br>
> } > > >> } > } with ease in their native environments on the servers on which
> } > > they belong.=
> } > > >> } > } <br>
> } > > >> } > } <br>
> } > > >> } > } Hope this helps.<br>
> } > > >> } > } -Brian<br>
> } > > >> } > } <br>
> } > > >> } > } On Aug 7, 11:59am, Ryan Boudwin via NFBCS wrote:<br>
> } > > >> } > } } Subject: [NFBCS] best solution for remote linux terminal
> } > > work<br>
> } > > >> } > } } Hey folks,<br>
> } > > >> } > } } <br>
> } > > >> } > } } I am considering a return to a technical individual contributor
> } > > role. The=
> } > > >> } > } <br>
> } > > >> } > } } job requires a significant amount of terminal work, over SSH to
> } > > remote<br=
> } > > >> } > } >
> } > > >> } > } } linux servers.<br>
> } > > >> } > } } <br>
> } > > >> } > } } What OS/screen reader/ssh client combination is the
> } > > best/easiest/most<br>
> } > > >> } > } } reliable to use? I have access to JAWS, NVDA or Voiceover as
> } > > needed but I=
> } > > >> } > } <br>
> } > > >> } > } } haven't done terminal work since my blindness hit.<br>
> } > > >> } > } } <br>
> } > > >> } > } } Best regards,<br>
> } > > >> } > } } <br>
> } > > >> } > } } Ryan Boudwin<br>
> } > > >> } > } } <a href=3D"mailto:ryanboudwin at gmail.com"
> } > > target=3D"_blank">ryanboudwin at gm=
> } > > >> } > } ail.com</a><br>
> } > > >> } > } } _______________________________________________<br>
> } > > >> } > } } NFBCS mailing list<br>
> } > > >> } > } } <a href=3D"mailto:NFBCS at nfbnet.org" target=3D"_blank">
> } > > NFBCS at nfbnet.org</a=
> } > > >> } > } ><br>
> } > > >> } > } } <a href=3D"http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org"
> } > > rel=3D"no=
> } > > >> } > } referrer" target=3D"_blank">
> } > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet=
> } > > >> } > } .org</a><br>
> } > > >> } > } } To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> } > > info for NFB=
> } > > >> } > } CS:<br>
> } > > >> } > } } <a href=3D"
> } > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buhrow%40lo=
> } > > >> } > } thlorien.nfbcal.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">
> } > > http://nfbnet.org=
> } > > >> } > } /mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buhrow%40lothlorien.nfbcal.org
> } > > </a><br>
> } > > >> } > } >-- End of excerpt from Ryan Boudwin via NFBCS<br>
> } > > >> } > } <br>
> } > > >> } > } <br>
> } > > >> } > } </blockquote></div>
> } > > >> } > }
> } > > >> } > } --0000000000004f88fa05ac4e27bb--
> } > > >> } > >-- End of excerpt from Ryan Boudwin
> } > > >> } >
> } > > >> } >
> } > > >> } >
> } > > >> } > _______________________________________________
> } > > >> } > NFBCS mailing list
> } > > >> } > NFBCS at nfbnet.org
> } > > >> } > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> } > > >> } > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> } > > for NFBCS:
> } > > >> } >
> } > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/ccn%40chrisnestrud.com
> } > > >> }
> } > > >> } _______________________________________________
> } > > >> } NFBCS mailing list
> } > > >> } NFBCS at nfbnet.org
> } > > >> } http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> } > > >> } To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> } > > NFBCS:
> } > > >> }
> } > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buhrow%40lothlorien.nfbcal.org
> } > > >>> -- End of excerpt from Chris Nestrud via NFBCS
> } > > >>
> } > > > _______________________________________________
> } > > > NFBCS mailing list
> } > > > NFBCS at nfbnet.org
> } > > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> } > > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> } > > NFBCS:
> } > > >
> } > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/gabe.vega%40commtechusa.net
> } > >
> } > > _______________________________________________
> } > > NFBCS mailing list
> } > > NFBCS at nfbnet.org
> } > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> } > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> } > > NFBCS:
> } > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/ryanboudwin%40gmail.com
> } > >
> } > --
> } > Best regards,
> } >
> } > Ryan Boudwin
> } > ryanboudwin at gmail.com
> } > (801) 928-3259 (mobile)
> } > _______________________________________________
> } > NFBCS mailing list
> } > NFBCS at nfbnet.org
> } > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> } > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NFBCS:
> } > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jbar%40barcore.com
> } >
> }
> } _______________________________________________
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> } NFBCS at nfbnet.org
> } http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> } To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for NFBCS:
> } http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/buhrow%40lothlorien.nfbcal.org
> }
>> -- End of excerpt from Jim Barbour via NFBCS
>
>
>
>

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