[NFBCS] Accessibility for programmers
Kevin
kevinsisco61784 at gmail.com
Sat Feb 29 21:11:13 UTC 2020
I sense much hostility grasshopper.
On 2/29/2020 2:24 PM, Jack Heim wrote:
> He did say it. And I can prove it. Nothing we have discussed is going
> to happen. There will be no wiki, no podcast, no social media, no
> advocacy on accessible apps. None of that is going to happen.
>
>
> I'd be thrilled to be proven wrong. But I am not wrong.
>
>
> On 2/29/20 1:13 PM, Kevin via NFBCS wrote:
>> I don't think anybody said that if you don't attend convention you
>> have no say.
>>
>>
>> On 2/29/2020 2:06 PM, Jack Heim via NFBCS wrote:
>>> Brian, you missed the point.
>>>
>>>
>>> The people on this list have been expressing some real needs and it
>>> just so happens that the NFBCS is uniquely situated to do something
>>> about them. There is an opportunity here. The NFBCS could be so much
>>> more than just an email list and an annual meeting. If that is going
>>> to happen, you have to choose to make it happen.
>>>
>>>
>>> Admittedly, that is your choice. But can you understand that it is
>>> not helpful to tell me that the rules of the NFB are such that I
>>> have to attend the convention to have a voice? A typical person's
>>> reaction to that is not going to be, "Well, if those are the rules,
>>> okay then." The NFB starts every press release talking about how big
>>> and influential it is but it makes no attempt to represent the vast
>>> majority of blind people who never attend a convention. Ask any
>>> member of the NFB about the ACB and they will dismiss it as
>>> meaningless and ineffective. True enough. But to me, all that means
>>> is that the NFB has that much more of an obligation to represent me.
>>> If the NFB isn't going to do this -- nobody is. So when you say that
>>> I have to attend the convention or I have no say, that is the same
>>> as telling me that the NFB is broken.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/28/20 2:50 PM, Brian Buhrow via NFBCS wrote:
>>>> hello list members. This is Brian Buhrow, current president of
>>>> the
>>>> NFB in Computer Science, chiming into this topic. Although I'm
>>>> coming into
>>>> this discussion rather late, I have been following it and, like
>>>> Steve, I am
>>>> excited to see folks interested in working on some of these
>>>> accessibility
>>>> issues. Since a lot has been covered in this thread, I'll try to
>>>> address
>>>> some of the points I've seen in this discussion and, perhaps,
>>>> clarify where
>>>> I think we are as an NFB division and what my vision is going
>>>> forward for
>>>> the division. For those of you following this thread and
>>>> contributing to
>>>> it, if there are particular points you think I've missed in the below
>>>> paragraphs, feel free to point them out in the discussion that's
>>>> sure to
>>>> follow this message.
>>>>
>>>> 1. For those of you who don't know me, I'm a long time NFB member
>>>> who has
>>>> worked in the IT field for the past 25 years. My expertise is in
>>>> the field
>>>> of Unix/Linux system programming and networking, both in writing
>>>> client
>>>> and server software, as well as building and maintaining local and
>>>> wide
>>>> area IP networks. I also have a good deal of experience building and
>>>> maintaining VOIP telephony networks and services. For purposes of
>>>> computer
>>>> access, I am totally blind and rely completely on braille and/or
>>>> speech
>>>> output to gain access to the systems I work on. Because I use a
>>>> variety of
>>>> equipment, I use a variety of access technologies. I'm proficient
>>>> with
>>>> VoiceOver for iOS, NVDA under Windows, a long time user of Jaws, and,
>>>> thanks to Mike Gorse, another member of this list, the Yasr program
>>>> under Unix.
>>>> It has long been my experience that creating access solutions which
>>>> enable
>>>> me to do my work have required thought, creativity, a lot of trial and
>>>> error, much frustration on my part, and, some assistance from my
>>>> colleagues
>>>> and co-workers. As someone mentioned up thread on this list, I'm
>>>> certain
>>>> that I've missed opportunities in my career due to lack of
>>>> accessibility,
>>>> or my inability to think of a viable access solution, or just an
>>>> assumption
>>>> on my part that I couldn't do this or that. Getting "backwatered"
>>>> in the
>>>> IT field is a constant problem for everyone who works in it, and it
>>>> is a
>>>> particular problem for blind individuals, myself included. Still, with
>>>> that said, my career has been a rewarding one that has allowed me
>>>> to enjoy
>>>> life, participate in a variety of exciting adventures and to join the
>>>> society of my friends and neighbors as a first class citizen. The
>>>> NFB and,
>>>> by extension, the NFB CS division, has been a key element of that
>>>> success
>>>> because they gave me access to the likes of Steve Jacobson, Curtis
>>>> Chong,
>>>> Curtis Willoughby, Lloyd Rasmussen, Jim Barbour and John Miller,
>>>> not to
>>>> mention a vast array of other mentors and friends who could not
>>>> only teach
>>>> me a bit about how to do what I wanted, but who lead by example by
>>>> doing it
>>>> themselves. I hope that overview will help inform the comments I have
>>>> about particular issues in this thread that I'll mention below.
>>>>
>>>> 2. As Steve pointed out, the NFB CS Division is made up entirely of
>>>> volunteers. That means the things that get done in the division
>>>> are the
>>>> ones folks find interesting to work on and which can be scheduled in
>>>> available time. To that end, regarding the topic of an NFB CS web
>>>> site or
>>>> wikipedia, I think David Andrews said it best. It's not hard to
>>>> build a
>>>> web site or wikipedia pages, but maintaining them and their
>>>> relevance is
>>>> very difficult over time. A complaint I saw in this discussion was
>>>> that
>>>> folks didn't know how to find the kinds of information they were
>>>> getting
>>>> once they asked on this list. Since this list is archived and
>>>> since there
>>>> is a web site where the archives are stored and accessible, it
>>>> seems that
>>>> maybe what we should think about doing as a division is figuring
>>>> out how to
>>>> funnel folks to that archive so they can find the answers folks have
>>>> provided on this list. As an example, Nicole provided a nice
>>>> summary of
>>>> the solution to her 3270 emulation software problem. There is not
>>>> a real
>>>> need, in my mind, to complicate the process of geting the word out
>>>> to other
>>>> folks by asking her to write a formal wikipedia page explaining her
>>>> fixes.
>>>> Rather, a simple page explaining that we have this list and the
>>>> best terms
>>>> to type into Google to harvest what it has to offer seems like the
>>>> quick
>>>> and easy way to leverage this list as a valuable resource.
>>>>
>>>> 3. As to the issue of accessible certification testing, I do see
>>>> this as a
>>>> barrier to job entry and, as such, I think it is something the
>>>> division
>>>> should try to address. I do not have the bandwidth or enough
>>>> familiarity
>>>> with the details of the problem to take the lead to work on this
>>>> issue.
>>>> However, if there are folks who are willing and able to work on
>>>> this issue
>>>> and to cary it forward, possibly to formal actions, I'm willing to
>>>> facilitate that work and help bring it to fruition, either by
>>>> advocating
>>>> for it on the national level, or by writing letters to appropriate
>>>> individuals or agencies, or some combination of that and other
>>>> means. Write
>>>> me off list if you are willing and able to work on this issue and
>>>> we'll
>>>> figure out what steps need to be taken to get things moving.
>>>>
>>>> 4. As an NFB national division, our business meeting, must, by
>>>> definition, be held at the NFB national convention. That doesn't
>>>> preclude
>>>> us from holding other meetings throughout the year, but our official
>>>> business meeting is at the NFB national convention. That said,
>>>> beginning
>>>> last year, we began offering the ability for folks to join the
>>>> division on-line,
>>>> allowing them to reep the benefits of NFB-CS membership.
>>>> Browse to:
>>>> https://web.nfbcal.org/nfbcsreg
>>>> to sign up as an NFB-CS member.
>>>>
>>>> Today, membership gains you the right to receive a copy of the
>>>> recording of the 2019 NFB-CS meeting held in Las Vegas last
>>>> summer. In
>>>> future, it will entitle you to access the archive of recordings
>>>> from our
>>>> past meetings. If you attend our business meeting, it gives you
>>>> the right
>>>> to vote. If you are interested in working on any of the issues I've
>>>> outlined in this e-mail, it would be my preference, but not a
>>>> requirement,
>>>> that you join the NFB-CS division as part of starting inon the
>>>> work. In
>>>> that way, you will be more officially connected with the division
>>>> if any
>>>> of the work becomes formal.
>>>>
>>>> 5. Again, as Steve pointed out, most of the NFB-CS board monitors and
>>>> participates in discussion on this list. Curtis Chong, our most
>>>> recent
>>>> past president and current treasurer, recently posted a treatise on
>>>> the
>>>> virtues of upgrading Windows to Windows 10 and trying out the new
>>>> Microsoft Edge browser. Steve Jacobson, our vice president, regularly
>>>> contributes insightful comments on various ongoing discussions.
>>>> Jeanine
>>>> Lineback, one of our board members, posts job postings for various
>>>> accessibility related positions. I send out meeting related
>>>> announcements
>>>> regularly, and also try to contribute to discussions where I think
>>>> my input
>>>> might be helpful.
>>>>
>>>> 6. In my mind, as I said earlier in this message, the real value
>>>> to our
>>>> division is the knowledge and experience of its members. This
>>>> mailing list
>>>> extends that knowledge and experience further because it includes many
>>>> people who have a lot of experience but who are not officially
>>>> members of
>>>> the Division. I know some folks would like us to cater more toward
>>>> people
>>>> who are working in the computer science or IT fields. I understand
>>>> that
>>>> and have tried to move our agendas at our annual meeting in that
>>>> direction
>>>> by including at least one panel or topic of interest to folks
>>>> working in
>>>> the computing profession. last year, for example, Tom Moore gave an
>>>> excellent talk on how to build and maintain AWS networks and
>>>> servers with
>>>> nonvisual tools. However, I don't see a lot of value in splitting our
>>>> resources into two lists, those discussing computer sciencey issues
>>>> and
>>>> those asking general accessibility questions. The truth is, access
>>>> technology being what it is, complicated, buggy and a moving target,
>>>> every blind computer professional I know has, at one time or
>>>> another, been
>>>> reduced to a neophyte user by a piece of buggy access technology, a
>>>> buggy
>>>> application, or just forgetting the magic sequence of commands or
>>>> gestures
>>>> to do a particular task with a particular ap from time to time. As
>>>> such,
>>>> my feeling is that we can all learn from every question that comes
>>>> up on
>>>> this list and for those of us who are more sophisticated, we can
>>>> provide
>>>> our own filtering if there are things we don't want to follow on
>>>> this list.
>>>> I, for example, have a very strong knowledge of Unix/Linux, systems
>>>> programming and integration, networking and VOIP systems. However, my
>>>> knowledge of Windows is definitely not as complete. Therefore, I
>>>> value the
>>>> Windows questions that come up on this list because they teach me
>>>> things I
>>>> didn't know.
>>>> Also, to that end, if there are things folks want us to work on as a
>>>> division, I'm happy to entertain a discussion and potentially
>>>> embark on the
>>>> work, but I need your help to do it. So, when you think about
>>>> suggestions
>>>> for the Division to work on, also try to think about how we might
>>>> go about working
>>>> on them in a sustainable manner.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for taking the time to read this missive. I hope it
>>>> helps
>>>> clarify how I see the Division. In the mean time, let's see if we
>>>> can move
>>>> some of these ideas in this thread forward, shall we?
>>>>
>>>> -thanks
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> -Brian, President, NFB in Computer Science.
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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