[NFBCS] Accessibility for programmers

Sun Mar 1 02:30:17 UTC 2020

Now, I'm gonna say something.  Please stand back, I need to clear my 
throat.  Okay, I'm ready.  Saying the NFBCS isn't doing anything is 
foolish because, you got it, we are the NFBCS.  If we want things done 
it is up to us, the volunteers.  That is all.

On 2/29/2020 9:22 PM, Jack Heim via NFBCS wrote:
> No, I have not missed the point. After all, I think we can all agree 
> that the point is that blind IT professionals have needs? There is the 
> problem of getting backwatered, lack of documentation on accessibility 
> tricks, little to no advocacy on behalf of blind IT professionals.  
> The NFBCS doesn't even have a web site. You google NFBCS and you 
> pretty much come up empty. These are problems. Did anything in Brian's 
> response indicate that the NFBCS was about to take on those issues? I 
> don't think so.
>
>
>  The best proof of any theory is its power of prediction. Einstein 
> predicted that the sun's rays would be bent by the moon's 
> gravitational pull during an eclipse. When that prediction was borne 
> out, it was considered proof of Einsteinn's theory. Well, I made a 
> prediction. I am willing to wait.
>
>
>
>
> On 2/29/20 2:49 PM, cathy at sks.com wrote:
>> I am not trying to be contentious, but I think you, Jack, have missed 
>> the
>> point.
>>
>> Completely read Brian's e-mail. He states in there that you can now 
>> pay your
>> dues online and do not need to attend the convention to be a member.
>>
>> Brian reaches out in his e-mail to all of us to let him know if we are
>> interested in helping take action on any of the items discussed on this
>> list.
>>
>> We in the NFB, are all volunteers with other things going on in our 
>> lives.
>> The Division will not get anything accomplished if members don't 
>> volunteer
>> to help. Brian, as our president, needs all of our help to make things
>> happen.
>>
>> The main point of his e-mail is that he wants to make things happen but
>> wants to find out if there are others that want to volunteer to help. If
>> nobody volunteers, then probably nothing will happen. It is in the 
>> hands of
>> the members to step up to the plate and help.
>>
>> Cathy Schroeder
>> E-mail: cathy at sks.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NFBCS <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jack Heim via NFBCS
>> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 2:07 PM
>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Jack Heim <john at johnheim.com>; Steve Jacobson
>> <steve.jacobson at outlook.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] Accessibility for programmers
>>
>> Brian, you missed the point.
>>
>>
>> The people on this list have been expressing some real needs and it 
>> just so
>> happens that the NFBCS is uniquely situated to do something about them.
>> There is an opportunity here. The NFBCS could be so much more than 
>> just an
>> email list and an annual meeting. If that is going to happen, you 
>> have to
>> choose to make it happen.
>>
>>
>> Admittedly, that is your choice. But can you understand that it is not
>> helpful to tell me that the rules of the NFB are such that I have to 
>> attend
>> the convention to have a voice? A typical person's reaction to that 
>> is not
>> going to be, "Well, if those are the rules, okay then." The NFB 
>> starts every
>> press release talking about how big and influential it is but it 
>> makes no
>> attempt to represent the vast majority of blind people who never 
>> attend a
>> convention. Ask any member of the NFB about the ACB and they will 
>> dismiss it
>> as meaningless and ineffective. True enough. But to me, all that 
>> means is
>> that the NFB has that much more of an obligation to represent me. If 
>> the NFB
>> isn't going to do this -- nobody is. So when you say that I have to 
>> attend
>> the convention or I have no say, that is the same as telling me that 
>> the NFB
>> is broken.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/28/20 2:50 PM, Brian Buhrow via NFBCS wrote:
>>>     hello list members.  This is Brian Buhrow, current president of the
>>> NFB in Computer Science, chiming into this topic.  Although I'm coming
>>> into this discussion rather late, I have been following it and, like
>>> Steve, I am excited to see folks interested in working on some of
>>> these accessibility issues.  Since a lot has been covered in this
>>> thread, I'll try to address some of the points I've seen in this
>>> discussion and, perhaps, clarify where I think we are as an NFB
>>> division and what my vision is going forward for the division.  For
>>> those of you following this thread and contributing to it, if there
>>> are particular points you think I've missed in the below paragraphs,
>>> feel free to point them out in the discussion that's sure to follow  
>>> this
>> message.
>>> 1.  For those of you who don't know me, I'm a long time NFB member who
>>> has worked in the IT field for the past 25 years.  My expertise is in
>>> the field of Unix/Linux system programming and  networking, both in
>>> writing client and server software, as well as building and
>>> maintaining local and wide area IP networks.  I also have a good deal
>>> of experience building and maintaining VOIP telephony networks and
>>> services.  For purposes of computer access, I am totally blind and
>>> rely completely on braille and/or speech output to gain access to the
>>> systems I work on.  Because I use a variety of equipment, I use a
>>> variety of access technologies.  I'm proficient with VoiceOver for
>>> iOS, NVDA under Windows, a long time user of Jaws, and, thanks to Mike
>> Gorse, another member of this list, the Yasr program under Unix.
>>> It has long been my experience that creating access solutions which
>>> enable me to do my work have required thought, creativity, a lot of
>>> trial and error, much frustration on my part, and, some assistance
>>> from my colleagues and co-workers.  As someone mentioned up thread on
>>> this list, I'm certain that I've missed opportunities in my career due
>>> to lack of accessibility, or my inability to think of a viable access
>>> solution, or just an assumption on my part  that I couldn't do this or
>>> that.  Getting "backwatered" in the IT field is a constant problem for
>>> everyone who works in it, and it is a particular problem for blind
>>> individuals, myself included.  Still, with that said, my career has
>>> been a rewarding one that has allowed me to enjoy life, participate in
>>> a variety of exciting adventures and to join the society of my friends
>>> and neighbors as a first class citizen.  The NFB and, by extension,
>>> the NFB CS division, has been a key element of that success because
>>> they gave me access to the likes of Steve Jacobson, Curtis Chong,
>>> Curtis Willoughby, Lloyd Rasmussen, Jim Barbour and John Miller, not
>>> to mention a vast array of other mentors and friends who could not
>>> only teach me a bit about how to do what I wanted, but who lead by
>>> example by doing it themselves.  I hope that overview will help 
>>> inform the
>> comments I have about particular issues in this thread that I'll mention
>> below.
>>> 2.  As Steve pointed out, the NFB CS Division is made up entirely of
>>> volunteers.  That means the things that get done in the division are
>>> the ones folks find interesting to work on and which can be scheduled
>>> in available time.  To that end, regarding the topic of an NFB CS web
>>> site or wikipedia, I think David Andrews said it best.  It's not hard
>>> to build a web site or wikipedia pages, but maintaining them and their
>>> relevance is very difficult over time.  A complaint I saw in this
>>> discussion was that folks didn't know how to find the kinds of
>>> information they were getting once they asked on this list. Since
>>> this list is archived and since there is a web site where the archives
>>> are  stored and accessible, it seems that maybe what we should think
>>> about doing as a division is figuring out how to funnel folks to that
>>> archive so they can find the answers folks have provided on this list.
>>> As an example, Nicole provided a nice summary of the solution to her
>>> 3270 emulation software problem.  There is not a real need, in my
>>> mind, to complicate the process of geting the word out to other 
>>> folks by
>> asking her to write a formal wikipedia page explaining her fixes.
>>> Rather, a simple page explaining that we have this list and the best
>>> terms to type into Google to harvest what it has to offer seems like
>>> the quick and easy way to leverage this list as a valuable resource.
>>>
>>> 3.  As to the issue of accessible certification testing, I do see this
>>> as a barrier to job entry and, as such, I think it is something the
>>> division should try to address.  I do not have the bandwidth or enough
>>> familiarity with the details of the problem to take the lead to work on
>> this issue.
>>> However, if there are folks who are willing and able to work on this
>>> issue and to cary it forward, possibly to formal actions, I'm willing
>>> to facilitate that work and help bring it to fruition, either by
>>> advocating for it on the national level, or by writing letters to
>>> appropriate individuals or agencies, or some combination of that and
>>> other means.  Write me off list if you are willing and able to work on
>>> this issue and we'll figure out what steps need to be taken to get 
>>> things
>> moving.
>>> 4.   As an NFB national division, our business meeting, must, by
>>> definition, be held at the NFB national convention.  That doesn't
>>> preclude us from holding other meetings throughout the year, but our
>>> official business meeting is at the NFB national convention. That
>>> said, beginning last year, we began offering the ability for folks to
>>> join the division on-line, allowing them to reep the benefits of NFB-CS
>> membership.
>>> Browse to:
>>> https://web.nfbcal.org/nfbcsreg
>>> to sign up as an NFB-CS member.
>>>
>>>     Today, membership gains you the right to receive a copy of the
>>> recording of the 2019 NFB-CS meeting held in Las Vegas last summer.
>>> In future, it will entitle you to access the archive of recordings
>>> from our past meetings.  If you attend our business meeting, it gives
>>> you the right to vote.  If you are interested in working on any of the
>>> issues I've outlined in this e-mail, it would be my preference, but
>>> not a requirement, that you join the NFB-CS division as part of
>>> starting inon the work.  In that way, you will be more officially
>>> connected with  the division if any of the work becomes formal.
>>>
>>> 5.  Again, as Steve pointed out, most of the NFB-CS board monitors and
>>> participates in discussion on this list.  Curtis Chong, our most
>>> recent past president and current treasurer, recently posted a
>>> treatise on the virtues  of upgrading Windows to Windows 10 and trying
>>> out the new Microsoft Edge browser.  Steve Jacobson, our vice
>>> president, regularly contributes insightful comments on various
>>> ongoing discussions.  Jeanine Lineback, one of our board members,
>>> posts job postings for various accessibility related positions.  I
>>> send out meeting related announcements regularly, and also try to
>>> contribute to discussions where I think my input might be helpful.
>>>
>>> 6.  In my mind, as I said earlier in this message, the real value to
>>> our division is the knowledge and experience of its members. This
>>> mailing list extends that knowledge and experience further because it
>>> includes many people who have a lot of experience but who are not
>>> officially members of the Division.  I know some folks would like us
>>> to cater more toward people who are working in the computer science or
>>> IT fields.  I understand that and have tried to move our agendas at
>>> our annual meeting in that direction by including at least one panel
>>> or topic of interest to folks working in the computing profession.
>>> last year, for example, Tom Moore gave an excellent talk on how to
>>> build and maintain AWS networks and servers with nonvisual tools.
>>> However, I don't see a lot of value in splitting our resources into
>>> two lists, those discussing computer sciencey issues and those asking
>>> general accessibility questions.  The truth is, access technology
>>> being what it is, complicated, buggy and a moving target, every blind
>>> computer professional I know has, at one time or another, been reduced
>>> to a neophyte user by a piece of buggy access technology, a buggy
>>> application, or just forgetting the magic sequence of commands or
>>> gestures to do a particular task with a particular ap from time to
>>> time.  As such, my feeling is that we can all learn from every
>>> question that comes up on this list and for those of us who are more
>> sophisticated, we can provide our own filtering if there are things 
>> we don't
>> want to follow on this list.
>>> I, for example, have a very strong knowledge of Unix/Linux, systems
>>> programming and integration, networking and VOIP systems. However, my
>>> knowledge of Windows is definitely not as complete. Therefore, I
>>> value the Windows questions that come up on this list because they
>>> teach me things I didn't know.
>>> Also, to that end, if there are things folks want us to work on as a
>>> division, I'm happy to entertain a discussion and potentially embark
>>> on the work, but I need your help to do it.  So, when you think about
>>> suggestions for the Division to work on, also try to think about how
>>> we might go about working on them in a sustainable manner.
>>>
>>>     Thank you for taking the time to read this missive.  I hope it 
>>> helps
>>> clarify how I see the Division.  In the mean time, let's see if we can
>>> move some of these ideas in this thread forward, shall we?
>>>
>>> -thanks
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> -Brian, President, NFB in Computer Science.
>>>
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>
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