[NFBCS] SQL Server Management Studio and large amounts of data

Fri Nov 27 18:08:27 UTC 2020

Hi Michael.

I used something like Learning SQL Server, and SQL in a Nutshell.  There were so many choices, it was hard to decide.  I also used some handouts and exercises from a couple short courses I took.  And, in the old days when we used to go into the office, if one of my SQL-using co-workers wasn’t too busy, I’d ask him to look over my code and make suggestions.  Or, because they know I’m still struggling with subqueries, if they had some code with a nice example, they’d share it with me.  Oh, the good old days!

I use Jaws with both speech and braille.  Best of both worlds.  I have sometimes found it useful to turn on line numbers in the code editor.  Makes it much easier to find that “error in line 158”.  The process for turning numbers on is a bit convoluted, but Google told me exactly how to do it.

There are probably other people here with more helpful hints.

Tracy

From: NFBCS [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Walker via NFBCS
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 6:09 PM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
Cc: Michael Walker
Subject: Re: [NFBCS] SQL Server Management Studio and large amounts of data

Hi Tracy,

What books do you use for SQL?

O’Reilly has worked well for me so far.

Also, what screen reader do you use, when writing database queries? How do you have it configured? Do you use speech or Braille?

I have JAWS set to speak all punctuation. Is there anything else you can think of that might be beneficial to me, that I do not already know?

When I am navigating with JAWS or any screen reader, one concern of mine is how to navigate more quickly, and process large amounts of code more quickly and efficiently.

Thank you,

Mike

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10

From: Tracy Carcione via NFBCS <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 8:15 AM
To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org> 
Cc: Tracy Carcione <mailto:carcione at access.net> 
Subject: Re: [NFBCS] SQL Server Management Studio and large amounts of data

Hi Michael.

I am a Bookshare member, and so I used Bookshare to study SQL.  They have an agreement with OReilly, so have all those books, + others.  But, if you already have access to OReilly through work, you could try that, and then, if it's not satisfactory, get a membership to Bookshare.

Tracy

-----Original Message-----

From: NFBCS [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Walker via NFBCS

Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 10:48 PM

To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List

Cc: Michael Walker

Subject: Re: [NFBCS] SQL Server Management Studio and large amounts of data

What’s your opinion of using book share versus O’Reilly and other online websites? I don’t currently have access to book share. I do, however, have access to O’Reilly through my employer.

> On Nov 24, 2020, at 9:07 PM, Steve Jacobson via NFBCS <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> 

> Michael,

> 

> I don't know those specific languages, but I have found that the best way to learn any programming language is to figure out something you would like a program to do for you and then write it in the language you are learning.  It doesn't have to be a complicated task.  Once you get started with the basics of any programming language, it is easier to add on to that basic knowledge.  Getting that first basic knowledge is often the most difficult step.  

> 

> Check for books on BookShare for the language you want to learn as well.  Even though the examples in Bookshare texts often have lost their formatting, they can still be helpful.

> 

> Best regards,

> 

> Steve Jacobson

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: NFBCS <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Michael Walker via NFBCS

> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 6:07 PM

> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>

> Cc: Michael Walker <michael.walker199014 at gmail.com>

> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] SQL Server Management Studio and large amounts of data

> 

> Hi Steve,

> 

> I typically keep the indentation in my head, as you suggested. I am using SQL Server Management Studio as my editor.

> 

> Where I have trouble is keeping in my head what is going on, when we have a lot of embedded selects in aware clause.

> 

> Also, what tips would you recommend for learning react and asp.net?

> 

> Thank you,

> Mike

> 

>> On Nov 24, 2020, at 4:20 PM, Steve Jacobson via NFBCS <nfbcs at nfbnet.org> wrote:

>> 

>> Tracy and Michael,

>> 

>> Yes, I have also used comments to clearly mark out levels of code.  We need to keep in mind that this can be a problem for sighted programmers as well.  Often, sighted programmers indent various levels of code to make the level more apparent, but this is still no guarantee that the amount of indentation represents the true level of code, except perhaps in python.  

>> 

>> If one uses code or SQL that somebody else has written, it is worth learning their coding style.  Sometimes, although not always, one can take advantage of the amount of indentation.  This can depend on the editor being used, though.  Even NotePad will now give you the line in the file and the column where your cursor is located, and you can read the status line in JAWS with INSERT and Page Down.  Putting your caret on the first character of the line and then getting the column position will tell you how far it is indented fairly quickly.

>> 

>> Frankly, though, I've been stung enough in my life where there were formatting errors that I just keep track of the level in my head as I work through code.  You only need to have one case of making decisions based upon the formatting which turns out to be wrong to cost you more time than you have saved.  However, adding comments to show the level can force you to think about and understand the level you are in.

>> 

>> I think Tracy might well be more of an SQL expert than I am from the sounds of it, but imbedded selects, for example, serve slightly different purposes if they make up an item being selected as opposed to defining a table that is to be joined.  They can also occur within a WHERE clause as well.  I'm not likely telling you anything new, but this means you have to develop an awareness of where a lower level of SQL is occurring within the structure of the SQL.  This means that having an awareness of where you are within a query is really important and there may not be shortcuts all of the time.  Also, you will likely learn patterns of which situations will likely result in certain query structures.

>> 

>> If you are able to place comments in a query to help you identify the level, think of a pattern of characters that will make your comments identifiable.  If you do that and you use an editor that supports it, you can search back for the previous comment to quickly see within which group you are in.  Again, though, the danger in doing this is that you might fool yourself into thinking you are at a given level when you are really at a lower level and forgot to insert the necessary comment to indicate that.  

>> 

>> Good luck.

>> 

>> Best regards,

>> 

>> Steve Jacobson

>> 

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: NFBCS <nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via NFBCS

>> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 7:28 AM

>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List' <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>

>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>

>> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] SQL Server Management Studio and large amounts of data

>> 

>> Hi Michael.

>> I'm still pretty new to SQL, and subqueries are still hard for me.  But, in other languages, when I have a complicated set of statements, I put in comments to say what each subsection is doing.  Maybe other people have more elegant solutions, but comments always help me.

>> Tracy

>> 

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: NFBCS [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Walker via NFBCS

>> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 10:05 PM

>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List

>> Cc: Michael Walker

>> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] SQL Server Management Studio and large amounts of data

>> 

>> Another question: how do you deal with sub queries? I am not talking about just one select statement within another, but suppose you have several levels of nesting deep, like a select within a select within a select. If you are a jaws user, how do you work with that, without getting confused? I have trouble, when the statements are several levels of nesting deep.

>> 

>>>> On Nov 23, 2020, at 12:40 PM, Michael Walker <michael.walker199014 at gmail.com> wrote:

>>> 

>>> 

>>> That sounds nifty. I will have to try that, when I get back to work. I have been fighting with the grid a lot. Your method sounds a lot nicer to work with.

>>> 

>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10

>>> 

>>> From: Tracy Carcione via NFBCS

>>> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 12:38 PM

>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List

>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione

>>> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] SQL Server Management Studio and large amounts of data

>>> 

>>> Hi Michael.

>>> 

>>> The command on my version of SQL Server Studio is control-shift-f.  It can also be found by hitting alt to brin up menus, right-arrow to Query, down-arrow to Results, enter to bring up the submenu, then arrow up and down to find the option wanted.

>>> 

>>> I use results to file for testing, then change it back to grid for the real run so I can save to Excel.  The output from the file option is a .txt file.

>>> 

>>> Tracy

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> From: NFBCS [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Walker via NFBCS

>>> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 1:29 PM

>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List

>>> Cc: Michael Walker

>>> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] SQL Server Management Studio and large amounts of data

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Thank you, Tracy. How do you set SQL output to a file, in the method you are referring to?

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Also, being new to this mailing list, does the NFB in Computer Science ever host virtual events over Zoom? If so, when is the next one? What topics are discussed?

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Thank you,

>>> 

>>> Mike

>>> 

>>> 

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>>> 

>>> From: Tracy Carcione via NFBCS <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>

>>> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 6:54 AM

>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <mailto:nfbcs at nfbnet.org>

>>> Cc: Tracy Carcione <mailto:carcione at access.net>

>>> Subject: Re: [NFBCS] SQL Server Management Studio and large amounts of data

>>> 

>>> 

>>> I usually know roughly what table I’m after, but I have paged down through long lists before, looking at what’s there.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Also, SQL has a name sysobjects, and another syscolumns, and you can use those to write a query to see what’s around.  Don’t select all columns from all tables, though!

>>> 

>>> 

>>> I found this query to get some column names from a particular table, which perhaps you can modify:

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Select a.name as table_name

>>> 

>>> 

>>> ,b.name as col_name

>>> 

>>> 

>>> From sysobjects a,

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Syscolumns b

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Where a.ID = b.ID

>>> 

>>> 

>>> And b.name like ‘%depar%’

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> I like to set SQL output to a file when I’m testing or looking at something.  For me, it’s much easier to look at a file than to try to look at the grid in SQL.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> HTH.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Tracy

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> From: NFBCS [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student) via NFBCS

>>> 

>>> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 2:16 AM

>>> 

>>> To: NFBCS at nfbnet.org

>>> 

>>> Cc: Walker, Michael E. (UMSL-Student)

>>> 

>>> Subject: [NFBCS] SQL Server Management Studio and large amounts of data

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Hi,

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> If you are using a screen reader, how do you most efficiently navigate large amounts of data? Suppose your database has over six hundred tables. One cannot use first letter navigation easily, since many table names begin with DBO. I might be browsing through the long list of tables, to get an idea of what the table name is, to write a query.

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Thank you,

>>> 

>>> 

>>> Mike

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> _______________________________________________

>>> 

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